Reasons to have children please

[Lookingforguidance]

Myself and DH both love children and have always wanted them but in the last few months he has been researching a lot about the global impact having them had on the environment and also the fact that there are millions of children in the world who don’t have families. He has now decided that having our own biological ones is unethical when we could adopt. I would love to have one and adopt one.
We’re both looking for reasons to justify having our own (not just for emotional/selfish reasons like to see your own genes passed down/ to experience pregnancy and childbirth/ because it makes you happy etc). I’m really searching for concrete evidence that will convince him we should have just one. Please help. Thank you

They're fun to dress up: carnival, world book day, Halloween, cos it's a bank holiday.

And I could revisit my My Little Ponies again.

This is an interesting perspective to add to your research...
vimeo.com/79878808

How old are you op?

I agree 100% with what Lex345 says.

@Lookingforguidance

I should probably add he is a teacher, adores children, has nephews who he loves and is constantly saying he wants DC. We have started looking into adoption and realise it would not be an easy route. The thing that breaks his heart (and mine) is that he desperately wants kids but all the research (that I’m aware of) says it’s selfish or irresponsible to bring them into the world 😢

Tell him you will leave him, if he doesn't stop this 'virtue-signalling nonsense'....having your own children gives a whole new meaning to your life and I mean vastly for the better.

I'm really surprised by some of the incredulity here. OP, I'm in a similar boat - I'd love to have a baby, but I'm worried about the environmental impact (and also what sort of life my prospective child might end up having if we keep going on the current trajectory).

I'm trying to swap my thinking around: yes, it's a selfish choice, and that's OK. I try hard not to be a selfish person in most aspects of my life, but I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice my dream of a child because it's the 'right' thing to do from a climate perspective. Individual choices won't be enough to turn climate change around.

The levels of ill mental health in both of our families - now, that's another consideration

I’m pretty eco in my day to day life, am very concerned about the future, climate change and everything and am well aware of all the reasons that you shouldn’t have a child and how bad it is for the environment etc!

BUT - i desperately want a baby! And have done for a long time - I only get one life and it’s something I want and sort of feel like I shouldn’t have to miss out on it!! Maybe that makes me selfish but I don’t care!

My baby is due in a month! I’m going to do my best to only have second hand items, reusable nappies & wipes, no plastic toys, basically as few single use items as possible!

If you don’t have a strong desire to have a baby then don’t! But if you do then you should go for it or you may regret it!!

Having a child has some surprising benefits...

You get to play in the sandpit and that's surprisingly therapeutic.
Likewise, sitting in a paddling-pool on a hot day holding a squirmy little person and playing with boats is more fun than it sounds.
They force you to get out of the house more and you become more involved in your local community.
You do start seeing the world slightly differently as kids are absolutely fascinated by wierd things...like flashing neon signs, rail bridges and post boxes. You will find yourself standing on a bridge in a cold wind waiting for a train to pass underneath while your toddler jumps up and down with excitement... but that might equal be a reason NOT to have children.

We have friends who have adopted and, from what they say, it is very different to having your own child. They love their adopted child to pieces, but due to his difficult start in life (severe neglect from birth), he faces challenges in life that frequently have my friend in tears. And she and her husband both work in caring professions and had experience of children with difficulties before adopting. So they knew the reality in advance. There is no room in their lives for any form of idealism, environmental or otherwise, only depressing realism as they navigate a system which offers their son completely inadequate support and has essentially tried to wash its hands of them. I'm not saying all adoptions are like this (and my friends certainly have no regrets) but, from what I understand, it's not an uncommon experience.

Isnt it natural. Fall in love. Get married and have kids.

Sorry but I don’t see it as selfish to procreate. I do think to a degree we should consider limiting how many kids we have, but how can it be selfish? You literally give up your life as you know it to care for a tiny helpless being. It’s the most selfless thing you do. You sacrifice your body, mind, sleep, freedom, resources for them. This is true whether you birth or adopt to be honest, but I can say it’s fascinating having my own biological child. Seeing how he looks like me and DH, having felt him in my tummy, going through the process of labour and birth.
Let’s face it, If everyone decided it was wrong to have babies the old fashioned way, we’d be up poop creek in 25 years or so with no tax payers to fund things. It’s not selfish, and it’s literally the ONE thing we are designed to do. Survival of the species.

...interesting thinking about ethics and adoption vs birth child. Whilst I came down on the side of adoption for me, I admit it wasn't for environmental reasons! Since adopting I have been asked if it was for environmental reasons which really surprised me (a bit personal, too!) but I suppose it shows some people are considering the issue.

@squeezeapplesmakejuice

It's tricky to adopt. Very invasive procedures to get approval. It can take years and you will have ss playing mind games with you and basically tearing your life to pieces. Also most children to be adopted are older and have experienced neglect, abuse etc

I agree wholeheartedly with this If I'd realised how hard and emotional it was going to be I'd never have done it, however, I did have a DC that I gave birth too so wasn't looking to adopt to give me my only chance of family. Adopting is a long and stressful process that takes you to your limit emotionally and mentally. It's not a quick fix.

The thing is, we are all given our lives by our parents and none of us asked for it. Once you've got it, all you can do is try to live it as best you can. As much as humans are responsible for much environmental damage we are also a product of nature and a creator of this planet. The human population isn't going to be affected by one couples decision not to have children, so to deprive yourself of a family life you both dearly desire is an act of self sacrifice which the planet won't notice.
The people who are really making a mess of things are people who are hugely consuming planetary resources with our without having children. The private companies who promote exploiting natural resources for profit. These have a far greater effect on the things you are worried about than one couple who take responsible decisions, and trying to live as gently on the planet as they can, having (or not having) children

Because with everyone living for such a long time now we will need young working people to pay taxes or we’re stuffed. If people stop having children we will be in real trouble in our old age.

It’s to have someone to love.

Re environment, tell DH to get over himself and just have one.

As lovely as it sounds adoption isn't like the sixties where you adopt a baby that resulted from relations outside of marriage. Children in the care system have exceptionally complex needs because of their absolute traumatic early life. There is a great podcast about it on the bbc have a listen. If it doesn't deter you and you are willing to take this on, then hats off to you you will be providing the care system with a great service. There was also on the bbc news long stories a recent article about a boy in the foster care system who was adopted by his foster careers it made my heart break.

Also if this is the route you are planning to go down you need to think carefully about having your own child and the impact the adopted child would have on them and their needs.

I'm not anti adoption btw it's just a very very difficult but incredibly rewarding path to go down. Make sure you don't have rose tinted glasses on.

It's a bit of a strange logic that somehow you adopting a child cancels out the impact of a child you conceived naturally.

I'm adopted and feel like it's often used as a sort of back up / saviour complex / credentials thing by people who don't understand how long and difficult the process of adopting is now.

It should only be a route undertaken by a person or a couple who are absolutely committed to it. Phrases along the lines of 'an adopted one and one of our own' do rather feed into the stereotype of adopted children being 'less than' siblings and children compared to those who remain with their biological families.

I know that's not your intention but flagging it just in general language wise. "Could your parents not have their own children?" is something you hear regularly as someone adopted and always smarts a little!

‘Our foster child asked us to adopt him – by drawing himself on to a family photo’ www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-54071599

@Lex345

I think your partner is being a bit too idealistic and rigid in his ideas about ethics OP. Realistically, having a child or not having a child for you as a couple will have almost zero impact on the bigger picture. There will still be millions of children in poverty, millions starving in war torn countries, the world will still have all the same problems. Except you will also be unhappy in it.

Bringing a child up with the right values, kindness and compassion would have a far greater positive impact on the world than any negative environmental one. If he doesn't want a child, that is his choice. It doesn't have to be your choice as well.

This

But think about all the things you shouldn't do if you want to live without leaving any environmental marks.

Only transport by foot, off the grid cave living. Only seasonal local vegetables, no pets no presents no loo roll, erh no toilet.

Nature has given you hormones which tell you to procreate in order to survive as a species. Yes it's going tits up, I'm sure some said that 200 years ago too.

In the end if you really want to do the ultimate thing for the environment and you already refrain from having children, surely you shouldn't be here at all? Adults are no better environmentally than children.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b0650jwh

Agreed!
An adopted child becomes your child/your own.
As a mum, those comments smart a little with me too.

@Weekends

Agreed! An adopted child becomes your child/your own. As a mum, those comments smart a little with me too.

Thank you for getting it. The only one worse than 'own' is 'real', as in "do you know your real parents?"

YES FOR THE THIRTY FUCKING YEARS IVE BEEN THEIR CHILD.

People can be so insensitive to the language around families, it's really sad!

I mean this kindly but you're overthinking this. I wonder if you're more ambivalent about having kids than you realise.

I also think he is making excuses to avoid having DC (or does he disapprove of any nephews, school kids etc who aren’t adopted). Load of old tripe to cite environmental reasons, unless he walks or cycles everywhere he goes, has never been on a plane, is vegan/vegetarian, makes sure he doesn’t buy anything non-local or wrapped in plastic etc.

You sound very naive, be honest, about adoption.

Surely it's obvious that adoption and having your own baby are very different things?