Reasons to have children please

[Lookingforguidance]

Myself and DH both love children and have always wanted them but in the last few months he has been researching a lot about the global impact having them had on the environment and also the fact that there are millions of children in the world who don’t have families. He has now decided that having our own biological ones is unethical when we could adopt. I would love to have one and adopt one.
We’re both looking for reasons to justify having our own (not just for emotional/selfish reasons like to see your own genes passed down/ to experience pregnancy and childbirth/ because it makes you happy etc). I’m really searching for concrete evidence that will convince him we should have just one. Please help. Thank you

I'm willing to bet at least 75% of mumsnet has kids.

I think you would be much less likely to be able to adopt if you already have a biological child?

You may not be able to adopt. My friends are a nursery worker and a paediatrician and it still took them over 3 years to clear the processes and have a suitable child placed with them. They were also asked directly if they planned to have biological children and told if they were, they would not be allowed further into the process.

I truly am sorry for offending anyone here this was not my intention. I thought because this is such a wide and knowledgeable community I may be able to hear some different perspectives and perhaps If there is anyone else who went through this before having children and their reasons for their decision. There’s only so much you can learn from google without speaking to humans who have been through it.

I don't think research really shows that "it's selfish", that's a bit of a meaningless notion. Research can attempt to quantify the effects (eg on carbon footprint) of having a child in x scenario or y era or z nation, but it's not applying a moral judgment. It's just data.

There are all sorts of calamitous things that happen - that affect all but the inordinately wealthy - when a nation's fertility rate crashes significantly below replacement rate. In much of the developed world we're dangerously close to that tipping point. It's not as simple an issue as just "reducing carbon footprint = good".

What other environmentally friendly things does he promote?

Rides a bike to work
Doesn't use single use plastic
Vegan lifestyle.

If he does nothing else to lessen his own impact, it's a bit hypocritical. Is he following 'Population Matters' on FB by any chance. Most of the posters on there think you're the devils spawn for having children. Though they do also advocate other ethical and eco ways of living.

I think he has a really naive view of adoption, especially for a teacher. I'm not convinced that adopting a child out of a desire to "rescue" them is healthy or a recipe for a positive future for the child.

You could just as easily say that continuing your own life is selfish and irresponsible, but you wouldn't because that's a bit silly. You have to put things back in perspective.

Agree with others. If you decision to have children is predicated on needing ' concrete evidence' as to why you should, you should not be having them. As you have completely failed to understand why people have children.

Having children is selfish, it just is.

But so’s adopting children - you adopt children because you want children, not because children need a home.

I would really look into the credentials and family life of people (do they live by what they preach?) who write articles about how selfish having children is, before taking their advice, and letting it dictate such serious life choices.

DH and I had a similar conversation, except it was he who wanted a biological child. As it turns out, his job has made us move country a couple of times, so adopting wouldn't have worked for us when we were younger. Now we're older (mid forties), I don't want any more children, though he'd happily adopt or foster now. I do understand where your DH is coming from and presumably he has worked with vulnerable children and children in care so may have a better understanding of the needs a child may face. But you want a biological child and he has no right to expect you to sacrifice that for an ideological reason that hasn't fully been investigated.

I don’t think there are really any unselfish reasons to have children? But life is for living and loving and if that’s one thing that will add value to your life then do it.

My view is that if he needs convincing, he doesn’t really want to and you can’t talk him into it. I would start from the assumption that he doesn’t want children and make your own plans accordingly (you don’t want to get strung along through your fertile years by a man who doesn’t actually want children). It may be that you decide that having children is more important to you than having a relationship with him, in which case you have the opportunity to end things and start afresh.

We have two biological children.

You shouldn't need to justify it. To yourselves or anyone else. Do you want children? Do you feel a strong need/desire/imperative? If not then don't.

As others have said, adoption is incredibly hard and not for the faint hearted. I have the utmost respect for anyone who goes down that route, but it really shouldn't be entered into lightly.

As for biological children, it's an irrational and emotional decision. You either want them or you don't. What you have to decide is whether you could live with the his decision. If you want one, then that is an absolutely valid position.

But if one of you really does and the other doesn't, don't waste your reproductive years debating carbon footprints and the disadvantages of an ageing population, spend it finding someone else to be with whose long term goals do align with yours

If you had just one child then when you both die you are essentially swapping two people for one???

In all seriousness children are amazing they can make ones life feel full and the joy they bring you is like nothing else. The world needs decent, intelligent, robust people in the years to come. If you want to do something about the future bring your child up to be the next top scientist or a surgeon, the world will need good people in it....

Only you can decide whether it is something you really want to do - the reasons for and against are well known and you can read all the pros and cons on the site.

The only thing I would say, is that it’s not just your DH’s choice. If you really want a biological child then you are free to leave him and have a child with someone who does- don’t let him just call the shots. He’s within his rights to say he doesn’t want one, but he doesn’t get to choose that for you.

What if he were to change his mind and leave you for a younger woman who he had children with? You’d be left childless and not through choice. Are you sure this isn’t just an excuse because he actually doesn’t want any?

@arethereanyleftatall

A very bizarre sentiment to post on 'mumsnet' where everyone on here has made this selfish and irresponsible choice.

Not true. I'm childfree by choice and there are plenty more like me who come here for the interesting threads.

My advice would be - don't have them unless you're 100% sure you want them. It's no bad thing to be childfree especially during a pandemic.

Watch Idiocracy.

A child will be carbon positive, but they don’t have to have a massive footprint. And we need an environmentally aware next generation. I would argue that one child who makes a positive difference to the world is worth their carbon cost.

Of course you can make this difference to the next generation partly as a teacher or by adoption. But the former input is minimal compared to parents, and the latter comes with a host of other potential issues.

Personally I would rather everyone who cares about the environment had 2 kids and worked to pass on their values through them (as well as elsewhere). I think the kids will only add a small percent to the carbon footprint of the U.K. and will make a massive difference to the future direction of our country and planet.

I think much less people should be having children, so I cannot give you a reason to... Maybe for something to talk about when you're old and bored with your partner?

Yes adoption is a great idea, then you're not contributing to the problem