On our way to Biden's Inauguration (Trump #119)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128420-Capitol-Hill-and-the-next-2-weeks-Trump-118?watched=1&msgid=103459695#103459695

Here we are on our fast moving theads

@Igotjelly
Unfortunately it’s a bit more sinister than mere dress up
www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/06/11/the-creator-of-the-punisher-wants-to-reclaim-the-iconic-skull-from-police-and-fringe-admirers/

A bit tangential but there given the engaged and informed people on this thread...

We've been discussing lots of big issues: rise if right wing extremism, role of police/security services, fake news, lack of critical thinking skills, ethics in the tech industry etc. But what can we as individuals do about any of this that will have an impact?

I don't want to be the person in the history book who was a bystander because they weren't directly affected or didn't notice what was happening until too late. But it all so big it is hard to know what to do. I begin to see why people end up as bystanders.

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lion that clip is awful [shocking]

So the Police are ushering in the domestic terrorists whilst telling a press reporter she can't go in.

In better news the father of 5 pictured carrying Nancy Pelosi's lectern (and then it appearing on Ebay) has been arrested on federal charges.

lionheart I think those police officers may just ave realised that there was no point in trying to hold back the crowd at those doors. They were hopelessly outnumbered.

Longer version of the clip you posted
twitter.com/insidernews/status/1347666277142306817?s=21

This entertained me:

loweringthebar.net/2021/01/dear-idiots-please-keep-posting-pictures-of-you-committing-federal-crimes.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dear-idiots-please-keep-posting-pictures-of-you-committing-federal-crimes&utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=loweringthebar

I especially love the idiot Adam Christian Johnson who went home and took the house number off his house, apparently under the impression that if he did that, the FBI would be unable to locate him.

Bore
Sorry but that just does not wash.
If they had WANTED to stop the people they could have done.
Using doorways and pinch points and body searches.
The fact that after breaking Federal Law and posting online that they had stolen and vandalised they were not ALL put face down on the floor, cable tied, searched and arrested
as they would have done had they been black

terrywynne, I'll try to look out a few more links in a moment, about how to deal with friends who are heading down rabbit-holes of any sort.

In the meanwhile, here's some material from Hope Not Hate, which has its roots in combatting far-right anti-semitism but, sadly, has had to learn to tackle a lot more than that.

charity.hopenothate.org.uk/14-steps-to-challenge-hate
charity.hopenothate.org.uk/whctt

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@Igotjelly
Unfortunately it’s a bit more sinister than mere dress up
www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/06/11/the-creator-of-the-punisher-wants-to-reclaim-the-iconic-skull-from-police-and-fringe-admirers/[/quote]
Well that's depressing!

The longer clip is no better
Shouting of 'heads on pikes'
At the steps...'if you're scared of confrontation, do not move forward, patriots move forward'
'Storm them'
'Let's get them'
'String them up'

The long clip is useful evidence to take all the ones clearly inciting riot to court.

@ListeningQuietly

Bore Sorry but that just does not wash. If they had WANTED to stop the people they could have done. Using doorways and pinch points and body searches. The fact that after breaking Federal Law and posting online that they had stolen and vandalised they were not ALL put face down on the floor, cable tied, searched and arrested as they would have done had they been black

I agree, ListeningQuietly. Those guards didn't come across as even remotely stressed or alarmed, as you may have expected them to be, in a situation where they felt so overwhelmed they had to stop doing their job. Those criminals were filing past them quite peacefully too, as if it was all perfectly normal, like they were on a tour or something. This whole thing has inside job written all over it.

There are also reports on various specific topics here:
www.hopenothate.org.uk

Hope Not Hate had an online seminar with some of the Biden team who specialised in combatting fake news during the election campaign. My takeaway from that was the slogan, "Don't treat the hit, treat the harm."

So wherever possible, don't repeat the fake news content, even as prelude to debunking it, because this just propagates it.

Instead provide the information or emotional reassurance that treats the anxiety or doubt or false belief that the fake news has created.

Going against the “we just wandered in!” narrative. Warning: graphic video showing police being injured

mobile.twitter.com/joshscampbell/status/1347749675777011714

This is just beyond words

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/republican-ags-group-sent-robocalls-urging-march-capitol-n1253581

An arm of the Republican Attorneys General Association, a national group representing the top law enforcement officers in their states, sent out robocalls encouraging people to march to the U.S. Capitol the day before the building was stormed by a pro-Trump mob.

“At 1 p.m., we will march to the Capitol building and call on Congress to stop the steal,” said the voice on the recording, which was obtained by NBC News.

There were only a few guards at the main doors though. I'd be very interested to know what orders they had been given, especially in view of the fact that requests for the National Guard were denied.

I have no doubt that, although some may have thought they were just going to peacefully protest, a large number of were hell-bent on insurrection to prevent the vote for Biden being confirmed. I also have no doubt that this was Trump's plan.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Thank you for the new thread, *@Roussette*. Who'd'a'thought, all those years ago, we'd soon be at #120..

I've just seen this, which I like.

Back to the last thread, @ BlueCatRedCat, I completely agree with you when you write: "The media were culpable before he was elected. In the primaries and run up to the 2016 election, he had massive media coverage, far more than any other candidate. He was comedy gold back then, good for ratings, much more interesting than the other boring candidates, nobody but a few sages like Michael Moore were taking him seriously as the next potential president." My point, such as it was, was that by taking him seriously once he had been elected, the media contributed in no small part to where we are now. It's all very well to say with hindsight, but if they had ignored all his shenanigans, rather than treating him as if he was not a nutter, perhaps the alt-right MAGgots wouldn't have got as far as storming the Capitol in an attempted coup that he incited?

I do get your point, but also I don't think the media had a lot of choice but to take Trump seriously once he was President. Ignore him, and be accused of bias. Report on what he was up to, and be accused of bias. They would either be turning a blind eye to his terrible decisions and behaviour, or failing to report the truth, be it good or bad. It was always going to be a lose lose scenario, once he was in, because there's no rational way to report on crazy.

The time when he should have been legitimately ignored by the media was way back during the Republican primaries. Once he became the candidate though, nothing other than full and equal coverage would have resulted in an accusation from the Republican Party of media bias, pure and simple.

One very interesting thing will be how the networks will fill their coverage once he has gone. Trump has both made and saved quite a few media careers. What will all the late night hosts have to talk about?

In the Dec newsletter of Ctrl-Alt-Right-Delete, Melissa Ryan reported a similar strategy working, wrt Covid disinfo:

"What I’ve learned this week from the pregnancy forums is that calling out folks for sharing disinformation generally didn’t work. But posting a thread chock full of factual information that was relevant to their interests got a much better response, eased anxiety, and made people more likely to recognize false information they had seen elsewhere and rejected it. My plan is to try the same approach with friends and family who are apprehensive."

As I understand it, the man responsible for turning dow more help at the Capitol when it was offered two or three days in advance has resigned -- but I think he still should be prosecuted for that appalling decision.

The police on the ground, one of whom died because of his decision, were not responsible for his behaviour; unless they can be shown as individuals to have colluded in the rioting (as opposed to submitting to overwhelming force while hoping for reinforcement) individual officers should not be held to blame.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) is another organisation which grew out of dealing with anti-semitism, and now sadly has a lot of work again.

Here's a particular resource dealing with online gaming (I haven't read it but the summary looks good), and they also produce other material.

Disruption and Harms in Online Gaming Framework
www.adl.org/fpa-adl-games-framework

I think we should never underestimate the power of just being a stable consistent and tolerant voice in the lives of those we know, most especially for our children. Many extremists are the direct result of seeing hate in the home.

As ever the way, I can't find the material I bookmarked months ago. If you'll forgive my poor summary, what I remember from guides to dealing with misinformation is:

• Straight debunking doesn't work. In general, people hate to be told they are factually wrong. (I think we're unusually good on this thread in accepting corrections from each other, because we've consciously set out to do that from the first.)

• Repeating the fake news just amplifies it.

• The most successful technique involves listening to people expressing the things they are anxious about. Then offering constructive information that "treats the harm", without adding, "So you're wrong, you twat."

Adam Johnson, the man seen carrying House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's lectern during the Capitol siege, has been arrested in Florida cnn.it/2MPb0m0

I also take great pleasure in the fact that these people are so angry for the fact that a progressive, forward looking and tolerant government are about to take power. We must keep in mind that more people voted for Biden than any other president ever. That's no small thing and points to a great deal of goodness left in America.