to think Donald Trump needs to be committed?

[NameofTheWind]

He's clearly suffering from a severe mental health issue.
It's astounding that he got to a position of power in the first place obviously, but now his delusions are absolutely off the scale.
He genuinely believes that the election results were a conspiracy, very publicly announced that it was a landslide victory in his favour when it so blatantly wasn't.
He obviously has a long history of utter lunacy, but reading his tweets and seeing recent events makes it clear that he's mentally unwell and a danger to himself and others.

Currently watching his narcissistic racist speech in Texas. What a load of privileged, unsympathetic shit. This man literally just said that if a Mexican applies to the US for asylum, they have to wait in Mexico to be assessed!! What??! Why the fuck do you think these poor people are applying for asylum in the first place? Mainly because they're in fear of being murdered. I wonder how many make it through the process? Gobshite tangerine toddler

He's not insane. He knows very well what he's doing.

He's collected over 200 million dollars towards the Election Defence Fund since he lost to fight against the voting fraud that stole the election from him. He is massively in debt after his presidency. He set up the Save America Leadership PAC and is transferring the donations (over 75% according to US media) from the Election Defence fund into this new slush fund that he has total control over and can do as he pleases with the money.

He has to go out in the media and make it look like he can possibly overturn the election results otherwise, who will donate? He will never admit defeat because that is admitting the money is going towards nothing. The biggest irony is, all those Trump, Qanon, MAGA twats that actually believe Trump is here to save them are having their wallets emptied by a man that wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

I’m just mildly amused that the not-jamiraquai-man’s mum has been on social media bleating that her poor wee lamb hasn’t eaten since Friday because they won’t give him all organic food in jail.

Awww my 💓 bleeds...

I'm convinced he has a serious mental health condition
If he hasn't then he is a complete test

@halfeatenhamper

Normal person: "Despite having done everything possible to check, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever".

Nutter: "Oh well that proves it's a conspiracy then".

I'm pretty sure @DGRossetti's comment was a joke. At least I hope it was!

No, I don't see what benefit that would have - it wouldn't benefit him, I doubt it would do much for those around him and it wouldn't change the social systems that allowed him to flourish.

TBH, I’ve voted every year, my entire life, but if I was in the US, I would not have voted for either candidate in this election.

There were more than two candidates running, it's just the smaller parties barely get a look in as they don't have comparable corporate backing or similar finances to get much of a look in. Even worse than the UK in that regard, the 3rd party got something like 1.2% of the vote, 4th was about 1% and all the others combined were 4%.

@ChestnutStuffing

Cookie3

A corporation being private does not mean they are not subject to regulation. There are all kinds of laws around the media and communications companies because of their important social and political role.

As for Americans eing better represented now politically? I'm not convinced you have a clue how their system works, but voters have very few choices, and the same money and interests fund them all. Between the Republicans and the Democrats, for a long time, the choice has been neoliberal free market capitalism, or neoliberal free market capitalism. It should be no wonder that when an outlier shows up, people are willing to try something different.

Exactly, and by keeping customers who are planning death threats, they risk legal liability to themselves by not purging these people.

I don't know where you got that I said they are 'better represented now politically'? I never said anything remotely like that. I simply said that these people are far more 'louder' than silent. They certainly have a voice and are certainly not unheard.

@Wales34 No, you are the one who is naive and have a complete lack of understanding of how PRIVATE BUSINESSES operate.

A private business is under no obligation to have anyone as a customer. You don't seem to understand this. What you are promoting, is actually a form of communism, and you and Trump are promoting a form of 1984, yet you cannot see your own behaviour. The way Trump has controlled the media has been class Hitler 101. This is how Hitler reached power. Trying to control the media narrative, trying to control what private enterprise does. NO ONE has a 'right' to freedom of speech in a private enterprise.

You are promoting government communism where private enterprise have no right to trade by their own philosophy. You can't see that you naively promote exactly that.

@Wales34 This is why social media bias is so frightening, the truth becomes what they allow on their platform .Sovereign nations give people freedom and safeguards democracy .

Social media has been run by the ultra far right for a long time. Their willingness to allow dangerous conspiracy theories and misinformation to flourish is proof of this. To be banned from twitter, you have to have done/advocated something so heinous that it would open Twitter up to legal action if they didn't remove the people making these death threats, planning treason/sedition against the government/storm the govt. You seem to think free speech is the responsibility of private businesses. WRONG. You seem to think free speech is unfettered and free from consequence. WRONG.

You are confusing 'sovereign nations' with PRIVATE BUSINESSES. They are two entirely different things, and this is where your confusion comes from.

For people who want to continue the private company discussion, there is a US ISP that has offerend to censor Facebook and Twitter for it's customers in response to the companys (rather dim) belief that Facebook etc are censoring "the truth" ....

www.newsweek.com/internet-provider-restrict-access-facebook-twitter-customers-who-request-it-1560656

Just to stir the pot ... while it's true that a private company has the right to decide who they will do business with (which almost defines them, compared to a state provided service) historically that freedom has been abused and is best summed up as :

No Dogs
No Blacks
No Irish

and there will be plenty of MNetters who can remember when certain things were forbidden to women just because they were women.

So cheerleading for the freedom of private businesses might have to be qualified somewhat.

@DGRossetti

For people who want to continue the private company discussion, there is a US ISP that has offerend to censor Facebook and Twitter for it's customers in response to the companys (rather dim) belief that Facebook etc are censoring "the truth" ....

www.newsweek.com/internet-provider-restrict-access-facebook-twitter-customers-who-request-it-1560656

Just to stir the pot ... while it's true that a private company has the right to decide who they will do business with (which almost defines them, compared to a state provided service) historically that freedom has been abused and is best summed up as :

No Dogs
No Blacks
No Irish

and there will be plenty of MNetters who can remember when certain things were forbidden to women just because they were women.

So cheerleading for the freedom of private businesses might have to be qualified somewhat.

I thought the non-racist qualifiers would be taken as read, I didn't add that as I thought that was common sense and everyone knew that. I am finding though on many threads that things that are basic in being so obvious are still being used as a 'what about' way, so it seems I might need to add disclaimers of every possible argument even the most basic common sense ones.

I thought the non-racist qualifiers would be taken as read, I didn't add that as I thought that was common sense and everyone knew that.

Assuming other people are decent human beings is a high wire act I can't afford at my age.

[quote Cokie3]@Wales34 No, you are the one who is naive and have a complete lack of understanding of how PRIVATE BUSINESSES operate.

A private business is under no obligation to have anyone as a customer. You don't seem to understand this. What you are promoting, is actually a form of communism, and you and Trump are promoting a form of 1984, yet you cannot see your own behaviour. The way Trump has controlled the media has been class Hitler 101. This is how Hitler reached power. Trying to control the media narrative, trying to control what private enterprise does. NO ONE has a 'right' to freedom of speech in a private enterprise.

You are promoting government communism where private enterprise have no right to trade by their own philosophy. You can't see that you naively promote exactly that.[/quote]
cookie , we can't have three men from
the west coast deciding whose voice should be heard, that isn't right. There was an alternate to twitter, parlour- google and apple took it off their website, and then finally amazon removed it from their server. The issue is that the rules are bring made up as they go along based on political beliefs. Even if you accept that trump should have been taken off the website , twitter also dropped.followers of many of the prominent Conservative republicans, and also removed and censored their posts because all they asked for a 10 day review of the evidence of the election fraud to give the American people reassurance that the election was proper. Even Elon musk has expressed concerns . You are very passionate and convinced you are right but if you have only listened and watched MSM you aren't going to get the whole truth . You can find out more by looking at OANN , Newsmx also some twitter accounts, Ted cruz , Ron Johnson etc . Also if you can provide a quote to me where president trump incited violence I would be all ears

cookie , we can't have three men from the west coast deciding whose voice should be heard, that isn't right.

So the state should force companies to host content they disagree with ?

Wales34, kindly shove it. Put your trumpery where it belongs and keep your poisonous reasoning there as well. Free speech, for reasons thankfully evident to most, cannot include deliberate incitement towards revolt and insurrection that will cause immeasurable harm to others unconcerned in your dispute. I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between the two. I hope your ignorance brings you no harm.

You're getting your 'facts' from Ted Cruz's twitter account?

Jesus fucking christ.

@longwayoff

Wales34, kindly shove it. Put your trumpery where it belongs and keep your poisonous reasoning there as well. Free speech, for reasons thankfully evident to most, cannot include deliberate incitement towards revolt and insurrection that will cause immeasurable harm to others unconcerned in your dispute. I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between the two. I hope your ignorance brings you no harm.

I'd rather hope their ignorance bought others no harm. I'm less concerned with extremists well being. (And judge me how you will, but someone tazering themselves in the bollocks to death may have been a tragedy to some, but it was funny.)

[quote Cokie3]**@Wales34* This is why social media bias is so frightening, the truth becomes what they allow on their platform .Sovereign nations give people freedom and safeguards democracy .*

Social media has been run by the ultra far right for a long time. Their willingness to allow dangerous conspiracy theories and misinformation to flourish is proof of this. To be banned from twitter, you have to have done/advocated something so heinous that it would open Twitter up to legal action if they didn't remove the people making these death threats, planning treason/sedition against the government/storm the govt. You seem to think free speech is the responsibility of private businesses. WRONG. You seem to think free speech is unfettered and free from consequence. WRONG.

You are confusing 'sovereign nations' with PRIVATE BUSINESSES. They are two entirely different things, and this is where your confusion comes from.[/quote]
No , thats not the issue. From your previous post I understood that you advocated for globalism. I argued that whilst I agree in principle, in practice, it would give too much power to too few, and actually would diminish diversity. I'm not getting confused between a sovereign state which is a country that sets its own laws and a company which provides good and services in exchange for money . However the economy and the markets of course have societal complications , therefore, companies are bound to a number of regulations/ laws set by a government.

@longwayoff

Wales34, kindly shove it. Put your trumpery where it belongs and keep your poisonous reasoning there as well. Free speech, for reasons thankfully evident to most, cannot include deliberate incitement towards revolt and insurrection that will cause immeasurable harm to others unconcerned in your dispute. I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between the two. I hope your ignorance brings you no harm.

I can tell the difference. If we put trump aside for a swcond. Why is it that the 10 senators asking for a review into the evidence to assure the America people ( a poll showed 39% of Americans believed the election was rigged) that the election was proper and democratic are now being called nazis, that they should be in jail , that they must resign , twitter has taken many of their followers away , their posts are censored . Also josh Hawley home was attacked by antifa( who are still on twitter) because he dared to ask for a review of the evidence. Also the Democrats since 2016 have been saying trump.stole the election etc etc and no one said anything. This is the issue . I will get of this thread now as I think this is too emotive for people , but remember this is not about trump, ita baht the America people who deserve for their voices yo be heard. Also , the evidence was never heard at a proper court, no court would also tje evidence to be discussed, that is why they asked for the review. Over and out .

Bye.

Ime when people say they're leaving a thread, they usually don't.

the evidence was never heard at a proper court, no court would also tje evidence to be discussed, that is why they asked for the review. Over and out

Another Tit-head to add to the collection.

@Wales34 we can't have three men from
the west coast deciding whose voice should be heard, that isn't right.

Yes, it is their right. Again, you seem very confused. Freedom of speech is GOVERNMENT jurisdiction. Not a PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Is there some reason you are unable to understand this? Or is your confusion deliberate? Three men from the west coast (if you are referring to Twitter etc) have the RIGHT to determine their target audience and their consumers. Mumsnet has the right to decide who should be heard on their platform.

There was an alternate to twitter, parlour- google and apple took it off their website, and then finally amazon removed it from their server. The issue is that the rules are bring made up as they go along based on political beliefs.

You know why? Because violent death threats were posted on parler. Have a look at the post I attached. That was only one example of the dangerous and extremist posts parler attracted. If you are going to say that people like that should be allowed to stand on that site, then, I have no words.
Google, Amazon etc are WELL WITHIN THEIR LEGAL AND MORAL RIGHTS to not give voice to that absolutely heinous posts. Numerous ones planning bomb attacks were on parler. Parler refused to remove the poster of the attached post, OR the posters that posted death threats and were planning bomb attacks. Google and Amazon therefore decided they had a moral and legal duty not to host a medium that would not even delete or ban the posts/posters. It left Google and Amazon with absolutely no alternative, if they wanted to avoid someone suing them.

Even if you accept that trump should have been taken off the website , twitter also dropped.followers of many of the prominent Conservative republicans, and also removed and censored their posts because all they asked for a 10 day review of the evidence of the election fraud to give the American people reassurance that the election was proper.

Firstly, there is ZERO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. Even the most conservative of Republican Judges and Justices have said so. There....is.....zero.....evidence. You can't review what DOESN'T EXIST.
Secondly, those Republicans were removed for posting false information (ie about 'fraud') and for saying Trump and the marchers on Capitol Hill were in the right. That, is DANGEROUS rhetoric. Both, the lies about fraud, and the encouraging violence are things are private business has the RIGHT to decide they won't have on their servers.

Even Elon musk has expressed concerns . You are very passionate and convinced you are right but if you have only listened and watched MSM you aren't going to get the whole truth . You can find out more by looking at OANN , Newsmx also some twitter accounts, Ted cruz , Ron Johnson etc .

The problem is you've just listed the most dangerous ultra far right extremists 'news' sites, and you clearly genuinely believe they are valid sources. You don't seem to understand you are being brainwashed by those extreme sites (listing Ted Cruz to boot - lol you can't be serious), that you even earnestly posted them as sources shows that you are being fed lies, and you are dismissing the truth from NORMAL media as lies. OANN and Newsmax are so far extremist right, the only site that beats them in the extremist stakes is Breitbart. You clearly are not going to get the truth from those 'news' sites.
I wonder if it ever occurred to you that your diet of ultra far right extremism from those sites is brainwashing you to believe lies are truth and truth are lies? Did you ever stop to think those sites are LYING to you? You won't get the truth from them. I suggest you read REAL news, because that garbage you listed is extremely dangerous.

Also if you can provide a quote to me where president trump incited violence I would be all ears.

You've got to be kidding me! The evidence of how he incited the violence has been repeated over and over and over again in NORMAL news media. Does it not strike you as strange that even staunch far right Republicans are deserting trump and have listed his inciting the violence as a reason? Are you saying his staunchest of supporters are lying that he incited violence?

If forgot to include that Parler post.

@Chargebeam

You're getting your 'facts' from Ted Cruz's twitter account?

Jesus fucking christ.

Yeah, my eyes opened wide at that. She seems to really believe the absurd, extremist and unhinged lies from those loopy ultra far right extremists is 'the truth', and normal media is 'lies'. She's been so far brainwashed and indoctrinated by the ultra far right extremist media, she now believes they are the ones who tell the truth. smh She is too far gone.