To not let DH talk DS out of applying to Durham Uni?

[cruddled]

I grew up local to Durham University but never considered applying back in the late eighties because I had a stereotyped view of it as being 'posh' and filled with 'Oxbridge rejects' from private schools. Whether or not it was true at the time, it was certainly a widespread view. My DH grew up in Yorkshire and had the same negative opinion of it. We were both first-generation university applicants and both ended up at other Russell Group universities in the north of England, then moved to Greater London for work, which is where we met and have lived ever since.

Now our DS1 in year 12 is thinking of putting Durham as one of his UCAS choices and seems quite keen on the idea. DH is less keen and has privately suggested we talk him out of it, but only because of his past prejudice. I disagree. I know there was a very negative story in the news recently because some students certainly did live up to the stereotype (www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-durham-university-students-19131519), but I'm generous enough to assume they are in the minority and that the university has otherwise moved on a bit.

Please tell me I'm right and that Durham is now at least comparable with other 'top' universities for inclusivity.

It's obviously up to you, but my Year 13 DS (who attends one of the best comprehensive schools in Durham and has friends at the independent schools and in first year at the uni) didn't even consider it. Those attitudes from some of the more privileged students are still very much a thing.

I've lived in the area since 2009, and I would say the divide between 'town' and 'gown' is more noticeable than ever.

Similar issue at my old uni, but I think your son will find that issue at any high performing university. You’ve got to hand it to the rah contingent. They only want to go to the best!
There is always a mix of people and he’ll find plenty of friends.

@tinkywinkyshandbag you can apply to certain colleges although it’s not guaranteed. DD got her first choice. Some of her friends moved after they started too. Durham was quite flexible if you’re not happy.

Why are you such an inverted snob? Diversity is a good thing. If you said you would avoid somewhere with working class people no one would think that was acceptable.

@DustyMaiden

Why are you such an inverted snob? Diversity is a good thing. If you said you would avoid somewhere with working class people no one would think that was acceptable.

Universities having a huge over-representation of posh students is not 'diversity'.

@mynameiscalypso

I don't think that stereotype - whether it's true or not - is unique to Durham. Certainly it was the view held about places like Bristol, York, Edinburgh etc when I was applying to uni back in the day.

Absolutely. I was at York in the mid 80s, it was full of Oxbridge rejects. It’s not parents’ place to influence their kids’ choices. Time for your bloke to back off, OP.

@tinkywinkyshandbag

By the way colleges are randomly allocated now, not sure you can choose. I think that was done to try and break down the rah culture in some of the older colleges.

No, they're not.

My DD refused to apply to places like Durham, Uni of Edinburgh because of the reputation of being posh despite having A grades, she is now at a lower-ranked university. I think it is a shame that young people are still being put of applying to these universities.

It’s not parents’ place to influence their kids’ choices. Hmm, not sure that it is right for parents to back off entirely either. A decent discussion and some other viewpoints is useful. Pushing views on him is not right of course.

I disagree with the 'you'll get rahs at any top uni'. You will, but it depends on the proportions, certainly in my day. Some were 'worse' than others for the rah contingent and it did put me off, but at 17 I was well able to spot that and make my own decision about who I wanted to be around primarily (my parents didn't care).

Not quite yet there for Ds1 but I will be letting him make up his own mind, even if I do make a few comments like 'what were the other kids like who you met there?'. I also visited everywhere on my own or with a friend so my parents didn't influence me.

In my day it was Durham, Bristol, Exeter, St Andrews. I went to Warwick! Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds I would not think of as predominantly 'rah'. But maybe it's all changed.

"I disagree with the 'you'll get rahs at any top uni'. "

That's true. Cardiff is Russell Group, for example.

If you’ve got the grades, you’ve earned your place.

Funnily enough DD and her fellow state school housemate have the highest A level grades amongst her friendship group of private and grammar school students. She has every right to be there.

@Justiceishalfblind

I’m sorry but that’s rubbish.

The problem with the dominant “rahs” is that they constantly and explicitly state their superiority and demand that others accept it.

I’m 50 now so I would just laugh, but as an insecure 19 year old it’s different. It’s a rotten culture in those Bailey colleges. Infantile, selfish and obsessed with money and status.

I agree completely with this. I was from a bog standard midlands comprehensive and went to Castle. I loathed it because of the rahs. I ended up with clinical depression in my second year and only fear of failure made me go back. I would do everything I could to stop one of my DC going there.

Oh and a friend of my family’s who is partially sighted went to One of the other Bailey colleges there. He left after two terms because the kids in his college used to spend their time following him to his lectures and ripping the piss out of him and his white cane. Fuckers. The college knew but did fuck all. So the quality of pastoral care wasn’t exactly great (this was early 2000s)

Is it unthinkable to think differently? Why would someone with no knowledge of the world take a lump of education in one go, when far too inexperienced to judge what would be either interesting or profitable to study further? Why would s/he do anything the way it was done in medieval times? Why in a certain building? Why in a certain subject? Why in a certain syllabus? Why full time? Why with people the same age?

Why not learn part time and online, at the same time as working? Why not just take the most interesting small portions of learning in the form of Course Credits? Why not learn during an entire lifetime, for new paths of earning, and also simply for pleasure? Why not accept that it is no longer possible to fantasise any similarity between the world a century ago, and this century?

When 5% of the population had degrees, usually professional qualifications, they also had a way of earning a living for the rest of their working lives. Now, almost half the population are handed first class degrees before getting a real job stacking shelves. (One retired academic remarked they might as well just let midwives hand first class degrees out to newborns, since nobody now dares award either give no degree or a low grade)

UK standards were once highly regarded, now derisory. Germany respects and encourages technical and engineering study. UK parents and teachers fail UK children by sneering at, and therefore underfunding, practical training and adult education and re-training

I was at collingwood in the 2000s and I loved it. Made great friends and got a really good education which is the point I guess. I found the college system incredibly supportive.

I wouldn't have gone to a Bailey college though. Look at Trevs/grey/collingwood/aidans/butler. Just a different vibe and a lot more fun.

Of course there were a lot of twats- both rah and not rah. 18-20 year olds can be dicks whatever their schooling. But that is the same at all unis.

Feeling a bit nostalgic for klute now. When the ceiling sweat hit the back of your neck

I went to Durham University in 2011. Northern working class girl. It certainly seemed quite posh to me at the time but I made lots of wonderful friends for life. If anything it opened my eyes to how the 'other half live' and I think it's cultivated me to be both ambitious but also appreciate the things I do have if that makes sense.

I actually can’t understand parents getting involved in this stuff - it’s literally none of your business where he applies! It’s his life

Thanks OP for this thread as Durham is one of my DD's choices for university come September. I'm pleased that she has naturally gravitated towards a college outside of the bailey.

I’d be grateful for any feedback on Grey.

My son hears back from Cambridge on 25th then I had assumed Manchester would be next choice.
But do then went up to Durham to check it out. He’s very drawn to the size of the town ( he’s used to small town life and doesn’t need nightclubs) and of course the dazzling beauty.

At application stage, I guided him to Grey after we watched the videos for the colleges.

The castle one has someone saying “I understand the Geordie accent now”. I told him that’s normal joke-not-joke for Castle and he was horrified. So if Durham does make him an offer, I am really hoping that Grey will be “ normal” without the bullying culture of castle/Hatfield.

Alternatively the University could get its arse in gear and educate the Rahs not to be such arses.

Kids that go to private schools can be lovely too

Longdarkwinter - not according the mumsnet.

I've had to come on and post, because I'm astounded at some of the nonsense that's been posted on this thread!
I have a son who is a 2nd yr studying Maths and Physics...
firstly, you'll be blooming lucky to be offered a place and make the grade to even get to Durham! ds2 need 2 A* and 2 A
yes, of course there are "rah's" there are people from the "best public" schools at all the best uni's, see St Andrew's, Warwick, York, Bristol etc..
you don't need to socialise with them if you don't want to!
You don't have to be in a Bailey or a Hill college and wear a gown.. DS is in Hild Bede, it's on the river, it's full of "ordinary" people and they wear a gown twice in the entire time they're there!
Yes, college is fully catered... but the uni gives big bursaries to students from lower income families! Ds2 fully inclusive fees are less than 5K a year! and yes that does include all food..
I can also make a direct comparison with my other son who is at Loughborough uni..
feel free to ask if you have any questions.

Alternatively the University could get its arse in gear and educate the Rahs not to be such arses

Good luck with that when their schools have spent 13 years teaching them to be that way!