The way I speak to my partner: are we doomed?

[MoanerLisa2021]

I know IABVU and I need you lovely straight-talking ladies to sort me the eff out!

I have this really lovely partner of 4 years with innumerable good qualities. Ok he could do a bit better on the beard-hair-all-over-the-sink front, but I know I’ve got a good’un and I’m really really lucky.

So why does every word out of my mouth to him always seem to be a nag or a moan? I can’t seem to help myself, I make up my mind to try really hard not to nag or moan and before I know it it’s out of my mouth and he’s offended or hurt that despite everything good he does, I’m incapable of laying off him for any tiny transgression like not wiping the hob down after he’s splattered food all over it.

He usually weathers the storm and continues to be a little gem until every now and again it gets too much for him and he has a go at me. I get upset and tell him I know I’m a total cow, resolve 100% to do better. And it lasts for all of like an hour.

What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I show respect towards a fabulous guy? He definitely questions whether I love him and I really feel like I do love him so much! I couldn’t be without him or with anyone else. To compound the issue, I had a baby 9 months ago and my sex drive is pretty much zero (was also zero in the latter part of pregnancy and tbh I wasn’t exactly gagging for it before that).

We do live 3 hours from my family and 2 hours from his, in an unfamiliar area after returning from overseas so neither of us has any friends nearby. But that sounds like an excuse and I shouldn’t be making excuses.

Thoughts? puts on helmet and prepares for the worst

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague

You want my thoughts?

I think you have a 9-month-old baby and you're busy and tired. I think you think your sex drive isn't all it should be because that's what he tells you. I think he's not pulling his weight and he knows it, and he tells you you're a nag so he doesn't have to address the fact that he's letting you down on a daily basis. I think you shouldn't have to choose between being called a nag, doing everything yourself or lowering your not unreasonable standards. I think anyone who adds swearwords into a 9mo baby's books is a scumbag and that taunting the dog with the baby until the dog is growling is a tragedy waiting to happen. And I think it's utterly depressing how many women on this thread are telling you to modify your behaviour lest you lose this excuse for a man. He needs to grow up.

+1.

And I think that he has successfully turned all of this around on you so that you end up describing yourself as a nag, simply for wanting basic stuff done properly in your home, and in relation to your baby.

Strategic incompetence at its worst.

I think the reason this is so tricky is that there are some things on this list where you're perhaps a bit control freakish which is covering the many many things on the list where he is just being a dick. This is pretty classic.

The bit that really freaked me out was his comment that he'd "tried his best" so you weren't allowed to get cross with him if there were hairs in the sink. I don't even understand that comment. Either he cleaned all the hairs, or he didn't. If you want to clean all the hairs, have full use of your hands and arms and eyes, then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that the hairs cannot all be cleaned. It is as simple as that. So his comment is passive aggressive and extremely manipulative because what he's saying is that "I put 10 seconds of effort in and I am bored now but you need to be grateful for the 10 seconds of effort I did do."

Yes, some things might be about different standards - eg DH does the food recycling but has never once noticed that the lid needs to be washed unless it's really really bad. But truthfully, it doesn't need to be done daily so I just toss it in the machine once a week or so. Similarly, I clean the hob properly while he does just a general wipe down - as others have pointed out, it's not really 100% necessary to have a perfectly clean hob every single day so while it can be a bit frustrating, it's not a big deal. But putting dirty clothes on clean clothes or not making sure the dog isn't tramping mud around.... that's not about standards but about general hygiene. And obviously, risking the baby while taunting the dog? That's just disgusting.

This thread made me think of this blog which you might want to show your husband
www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp

I think it depends. He might be being lazy or you might be a nag. Are you picking him up on every little thing that he does that you don’t like/ find annoying when he’s actually pulling his weight and just does things differently?

My mother sometimes does this- she’s mellowing as she gets older (and has many wonderful qualities)- to the point where it is often easier to just let her do certain things. Because no matter how you do it, if it’s not exactly as she would do it, it’s not right even if it is done to a reasonable standard. She then moans/nags and will often redo it herself, even if it is done perfectly adequately. Actually, she made a rod for herself- no-one else does these particular tasks because there is literally no point. We had a big argument about it once (years ago, when I was home from uni) because she felt taken for granted, I felt nagged- it’s been much better since.

So- if you nag because you like things done in a certain way/time-frame etc, but he generally does do his share of chores etc then I think YABU. If he doesn’t do much and so you have to nag to get things done, then that’s different and he is being unreasonable. It could also be the case that you have different standards of acceptable and untidy- neither wrong but you have to find a compromise you can both tolerate for the relationship to work. My husband is a really very tidy and neat, I am less so (not excessively, just less). I accepted likes things a certain way and do try to be more thoughtful, do things more often than I would think is necessary and he accepts that if something is ok but he just wants it tidier, then that’s his issue and he tidies it without being dramatic.

He might be being lazy or you might be a nag

The labels don't matter. He keeps doing things that piss OP off. She keeps asking him to do things and it pisses him off. They are both being who they are.

That's incompatibility.

He sounds like a teenager. I would question why he has not improved with age and the responsibility of become a husband and now a father.

I feel this relationship is doomed

Why aren't you allowed to moan at him for the beard hair and messy hob? Are you meant to clean up after him? What does he do that is so wonderful? Is he just not mean to you? Sounds like you may be setting the bar low.

He sounds like a glory seeker who does things that look good to others ie the making the brews but doesn't do the actual work behind it all, bet he doesn't clean up the cups properly after. Why is it possible for you to clean everything up properly but not him? He sounds like he is hard work and I wouldn't be happy to deal with all his leftover shit.

Next time he questions you if you love him due to your "nagging" ask him why he has so little regard for you that he creates all this work for you to clear up

I find people who describe themselves as 'straight talking' are using it as a euphemism for rude.

It's a bit depressing to see posters who think its perfectly acceptable for one person to expect the other to clean up after them and that person who creates the extra work somehow deserves to be lauded for doing the most basic things.

OP, I think you are labelling yourself unfairly as a nag. A lot of what you describe of his behaviour is despicable. I'm not one to shout LTB but honestly, I have read similar threads here over the years, and that is sometimes the only solution.

[quote QuentinWinters]This thread made me think of this blog which you might want to show your husband
www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp[/quote]
I’ve actually just sent this to him. Intrigued to hear what he has to say. I think he’ll either never mention it or laugh it off and say that isn’t us because he does his fair share and doesn’t expect me to pick up after him.

I’ve actually just sent this to him. Intrigued to hear what he has to say. I think he’ll either never mention it or laugh it off and say that isn’t us because he does his fair share and doesn’t expect me to pick up after him.

But he does or he would ensure things like the beer caps would go in the bin not the draw and he would ensure he cleaned up his hairs properly. Does he really think a magic fairy comes along and does it?

I’m contemplating sending it to my partner to OP. I just talked to my DP about not putting the shopping away and he said “I did 95% of the job, why are you moaning about the 5% I didn’t do?” He then mentioned how I had left a gift given to me on Monday, in the hallway for 3 days (whilst I worked out where it was going to go, it’s a small but heavy item) He said “see, you did 95% of a job there so how can you criticise me?” At this point I felt like I was going to cry so had to leave the room

It doesn't matter if they don't mention it, if it makes them think about how what they do affects you

@Haggertyjane

I find people who describe themselves as 'straight talking' are using it as a euphemism for rude.

The difference between straight talking and rude is in the eye of the beholder. 'Euphemism' suggests there is a right and a wrong, but everybody's rights and wrongs are different.

Respectfully but....God you sound awful!

Relationships are about give & take and equal compromise form both parties. Where are you compromising? It sounds like he‘s doing his best while also juggling long hours to work & provide for the family yet still meeting criticism for not doing things YOUR way. You SHARE the house therefore you both have a right to live in it how you choose. Why should he have to do things a certain way because YOU decided that he should do that? He is not obligated to serve you and work for you, you are partners in life and two parents to a child. That does not make him your slave. You even acknowledge that you’re too harsh on him in your original post. You are asking a person to change who they are after knowing each other for only four years of your existence, why does he owe you that?

The items you’ve mentioned about him feeding your daughter/incident with your dogs/swearing at storytime...are these not the mistakes of a first time parent who doesn’t know any better? I don’t think you can use those as fuel for your fire I’m afraid

And honestly I’m not surprised he questions if you love him and are attracted to him. You sound like you’re questioning it yourself. As you’ve mentioned in your original post, sex wasn’t the top of your list before you had the baby anyway and now you’re nagging at him relentlessly too? Are you thanking him and showing gratitude for the things he IS doing?

Let’s also take a minute to understand what is truly important in a relationship. Is he respectful, do you trust him, is he kind? Does he support you, understand you, have patience with you? Is he a good dad and present and there for your daughter? If your answer to all of the above is yes, ignore the fucking beard hairs and take a breath of reality! Life is too short to badger someone every day for not living how you expect them to live

And dear god please ignore the onslaught of comments telling you he’s a lazy twat. These people are projecting their own relationship insecurities and ideologies onto you. Dont let these strangers encourage what is quite clearly toxic and unloving behaviour on your part. Put the internet down and have a real conversation with yourself to explore why you feel the urge to control every aspect of your life and your home and think about the environment you are creating for your child. Do you really want her to grow up in an environment where criticism and not being good enough for you is the norm?

@aceofharts

These people are projecting their own relationship insecurities and ideologies onto you

Respectfully, but that's exactly what you are doing. OP gets to decide where she wants to compromise and where she doesn't. Everyone's life isn't about your set of rules.

Completely agree that OP gets to decide where she wants to compromise and where she doesn’t, but seems the lack of will to compromise is kind of the problem here.

And you’ve hit the nail on the head with “everyone’s life isn’t about your set of rules.” That’s my point exactly. OP’s partner is under no obligations to live by her set of rules.

Look, it's very very difficult having a baby for the first time. If you were any way control freakish before, then that just ramps up 1000% afterwards. I notice a lot of stuff you mention is to do with cleaning. That might be ramped up too because we are in a scary pandemic.
Being alone with a baby all day is absolutely shite let's face it. It does get easier when they get a bit older.
Your DH just sounds like he's oblivous.
I think the way to tackle it could be that you sit him down when you are both calm and tell him how stressed these little things make you feel...whether they are important or not to him, they ARE important to you and could he try to remember to do them.
It does remind me of when I had our first baby, it was all about wiping the high chair properly.
A lot of this comes with the territory of being a mother for the first time and the massive, massive strain of being responsible for that tiny human being. The men just don't get it.
Another approach is that you can say how YOU feel about things.
Instead of telling him to wipe the bin lid say 'I just get this very worried feeling when I see the lid of the bin dirty, it makes me worried about one of us getting sick. I also get thoughts about the baby getting sick or that if I get sick I wouldn't be able to mind her. I know that might sound over the top to you but I'm just telling you how I feel'.
Likewise with the swearing at bedtime stories, say 'I love to see you read her the stories and see her laughing like that but I also feel worried that she will pick up on these swear words and say them when she starts talking. It might be funny the first time but when she goes to nursery it mightn't be so funny'.
So you are just stating your case about your own thoughts and fears, and then the other person can respond to that. There's less control and more admission of how their behaviour affects you.

@aceofharts thank you. This was the sort of response I was expecting at the outset and then when a few people seemed to come down on my side of things I worried that I had presented a skewed view and tried to balance my account out a bit in his favour. I have said that I know this behaviour is wrong and that I believe I am a nightmare, he deserves better etc., and then acknowledged that it is bollocks to say I can’t help it.

Just on the dog and swearing fronts, I am a first time parent too. He admittedly doesn’t know much about having dogs whereas I’ve had them all my life, but this is why I spoke at some length during my pregnancy about having to have strategies with that particular dog to keep the baby safe, as any dog can turn and she is just on the side of more likely to do so. This example is surely not something that is his way vs. my way and ‘why should he live by my rules?’ when clearly a reactive dog growling at a baby shouldn’t be ignored? You’re saying it’s a mistake but I honestly feel like he dismissed my fears because in the moment it was more fun to play a game with the baby and dog (the baby loves the dog and giggles at her which is cute), he thought I was being neurotic, and got so carried away messing about that he didn’t hear the dog growling. But then I suppose if I’ve been neurotic about small things then I have made him less likely to take any notice about this one big thing, as someone suggested earlier. As far as the swearing goes, he has commented loads of times on friends modelling undesirable behaviour to their kids. We are both also qualified teachers (I imagine this probably explains a lot about me!).

This is actually where I struggle- I somehow can’t separate the things which are ‘my way’ and the things which are ‘the correct way’, e.g. to me it is fairly black and white that beard hair left on a sink is wrong/dirty/inconsiderate of anyone else you live with. So you’re saying ignore it and just wait for the bathroom to next be cleaned? And feel grossed out every time I go into the bathroom or feel embarrassed if someone comes over? Or clean it?

Do I show gratitude? Yes I think so, and I also regularly apologise for my moaning and mood swings, but I think it is cancelled out when I continue to nag. He says the best way I can show gratitude is to stay off his back.

It’s a tough one when one person wants things a certain way and the other is indifferent, though I suppose being indifferent is tantamount to having the preference that everything domestic is as quick and easy as possible. Should I try to care less about things that make me feel physically uncomfortable in favour of his preference to keep things as quick and easy as possible? Yes I suppose so.

I harvest to laugh at the idea that thinking it’s ok to swear at story time or to leave all your beard hair in the bathroom or taunt a dog up to the point they are growling are all mistakes that a first time parent can make...

I’m sorry but no.

And esp nit when those incidents happen repeatedly rather than being a one off Nd then you’ve learnt from it type of things.

I somehow can’t separate the things which are ‘my way’ and the things which are ‘the correct way

There is no correct way. What pisses you off pisses you off. It might not piss anybody else in the world off. It might piss everybody in the world off. It doesn't really matter. The only rules we have are laws. All the emotional stuff that comes before laws is up to each individual to make their own boundaries about.

You need to be deciding on your boundaries, here, rather than looking for what's 'right'. You are right: Hairs being left all over the sink is rude. He is right: Everyone should be able to live in their own house in the way that they want. You are wrong: People don't get to make rules for other people. He is wrong: You don't disrespect the preferences of those you love.

This is not about 'the rules'. This is about how the two of you respect each others preferences and maintain your own individual boundaries.

Omg, I was just about to post that the OP should absolutely ignore all of @aceofharts shocking advice, but I see I'm too late. In what parallel universe substituting swear words into baby books or taunting a growling dog with a squealing baby are the mere 'mistakes of a first time parent' I can't even imagine. One with very low standards, that's for sure. And as for 'projecting [our] own relationship insecurities and ideologies' goes...well, I can't speak for all of us who think this man is a juvenile waste of space, but personally I'm in a very happy 20+ year relationship with a man who would never run downstairs hours later than agreed saying 'Sorreeee, what can I do...?' but would turn up in time to pull his weight and look around to see what needed doing instead of asking for it to be explained to him. If thinking that's a normal, grown-up way for a husband and father to behave is an 'ideology', then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

OP, you're being gaslighted. First by a husband who imagines you're there to be his support act and blames you when you don't fulfil that role joyfully enough, and now by @aceofharts and anyone else on the thread who thinks that your 'behaviour' is 'clearly toxic and unloving'.

There is so much internalised misogyny on this thread it's really quite upsetting.

Should I try to care less about things that make me feel physically uncomfortable in favour of his preference to keep things as quick and easy as possible? Yes I suppose so.

Why?

What should happen is that both of you have a grown-up discussion about things that are irritating. You discuss the beard hair in the sink and say DH, it feels really disrespectful when you don't clean up properly, because it means I have to do it. And then he says DW, don't be so uptight about it. Why does it matter anyway, a bit of hair? and you go on from there explaining to the lazy git why it matters - which is that he did not leave it as clean as he found it, and you don't want to wash your face in beard hair, because that is disgusting. And there's really no comeback to that - he cannot possibly argue that his desire to do a quick shitty job is more important than your desire for a sink as clean as you left it.

On the other hand, the TV on constantly, his fizzy drink habit, the sort of wipe used on the high chair - let them go. Because if you tried to have the same conversation about those, you would be the one having to concede that there's no real justification that your opinion or way of doing things is inherently better.

please ignore the onslaught of comments telling you he’s a lazy twat. These people are projecting their own relationship insecurities and ideologies onto you.

I don't know why you think ideology has any relevance at all to beard hairs in the sink, dirty washing up and disgusting water everywhere, a filthy bin and the habit of swearing to his infant daughter and teasing a dog, aceofharts. I think most people consider all that just horrible low standards, frankly.