The way I speak to my partner: are we doomed?

[MoanerLisa2021]

I know IABVU and I need you lovely straight-talking ladies to sort me the eff out!

I have this really lovely partner of 4 years with innumerable good qualities. Ok he could do a bit better on the beard-hair-all-over-the-sink front, but I know I’ve got a good’un and I’m really really lucky.

So why does every word out of my mouth to him always seem to be a nag or a moan? I can’t seem to help myself, I make up my mind to try really hard not to nag or moan and before I know it it’s out of my mouth and he’s offended or hurt that despite everything good he does, I’m incapable of laying off him for any tiny transgression like not wiping the hob down after he’s splattered food all over it.

He usually weathers the storm and continues to be a little gem until every now and again it gets too much for him and he has a go at me. I get upset and tell him I know I’m a total cow, resolve 100% to do better. And it lasts for all of like an hour.

What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I show respect towards a fabulous guy? He definitely questions whether I love him and I really feel like I do love him so much! I couldn’t be without him or with anyone else. To compound the issue, I had a baby 9 months ago and my sex drive is pretty much zero (was also zero in the latter part of pregnancy and tbh I wasn’t exactly gagging for it before that).

We do live 3 hours from my family and 2 hours from his, in an unfamiliar area after returning from overseas so neither of us has any friends nearby. But that sounds like an excuse and I shouldn’t be making excuses.

Thoughts? puts on helmet and prepares for the worst

You don't sound horrible or controlling Op and it sounds salvageable but I agree with the others, I think you need to see a counsellor to work through it all, in a calm and neutral manner.

TV - yes, annoying to be “summoned” to watch something, if it’s not your thing. But equally, is there nothing you like to watch together? Does he not like watching TV at all really? There’s so MUCH to watch, it seems inconceivable there’s nothing to agree on. For instance, I’ve hit no interest in Top Gear or some of the documentaries my DH is into. He doesn’t like reality TV or home makeover stuff. But we watch drama series and comedies together - and we try quite a bit of stuff that one or other of us don’t like so we just keep going till we find something we do.

Christmas- yes, you’ve admitted you were wrong.

Both the above seem to stem from loneliness (very understandable, new mum in a shitty pandemic year) and maybe anxiety which your controlling tendencies are exacerbating.

When I brought up beard hair he said he doesn’t have an infinite amount of time so things just get done to the standard he has time for. Fair enough I guess, he does work full time and then cook and bath the baby pretty much every weekday.

No. To do it properly he just needs to allocate a bit more time to finish. Whether it’s beard hair or washing up or the bin, he’s not constantly moving from those jobs to bathing the baby or cooking, is he? He can spare an extra few minutes per task - and that’s literally all it is, if you time it - to do it properly. It’s disrespectful otherwise.

Regarding bottle tops in the drawer, he said it’s OUR drawer and who am I to decide what goes in it. If he wants it to be for utensils and bottle tops then that’s up to him, because he owns the drawer as much as I do.

Childish and silly. What grown-up can defend this? It’s rubbish! Would it also be OK if he decided to keep empty packets in the food cupboards or empty toilet roll tubes in the bathroom?

When I brought up the dog incident he said something about a logical fallacy, that just because I’ve had dogs doesn’t mean I’m right when it comes to dogs, reiterated that me being nervous about their interactions is more likely to make the dog bite the baby.

He’s really reaching here, and it’s very unfair and potentially dangerous to your child and the dog. A dog growls, you heed the warning. He’s missing the main point which is that because he doesn’t appear to listen to you on this point he is creating a vicious circle where you become more nervous and have less faith he will behave appropriately with supervising the dog and the baby. This will only get more important the more mobile baby gets.

It sounds like counselling would be really helpful to you both.

And remember this time in your lives as parents is really stressful. My DH and I found it stressful, everyone does. You need to keep making connection with each other even if it’s a bit formal and scheduled e.g. Friday night date night, no devices etc.

Regarding bottle tops in the drawer, he said it’s OUR drawer and who am I to decide what goes in it. If he wants it to be for utensils and bottle tops then that’s up to him, because he owns the drawer as much as I do

A tiny tiny thing, but a representation of his attitude. It's up to him because it's not just your drawer. No sign of compromise?

When I brought up the dog incident he said something about a logical fallacy, that just because I’ve had dogs doesn’t mean I’m right when it comes to dogs, reiterated that me being nervous about their interactions is more likely to make the dog bite the baby

Again, no sign of compromise.

When I brought up beard hair he said he doesn’t have an infinite amount of time so things just get done to the standard he has time for

No sign of compromise.

He genuinely just can't be arsed to meet you in the middle, can he.

This sounds a bit 50/50 to me.

The Christmas with your family - I see his point, but he should have had a conversation with you at the time rather than holding resentment about it.

The lack of time excuse is ridiculous.

I’m putting it out there that I have a 6 year old home schooling, 1 year old triplets and I’m trying to work full time from home whilst my husband does 2-10 shifts.
I clean the kitchen properly after each meal and wouldn’t leave it how you describe.
I wouldn’t leave hairs all over the bathroom. It takes what - a few more minutes.

I think you could change it up a bit but it does sound like you’re willing to listen and you’re self aware. He sounds completely closed off to change and compromise which is where the worry is.

You either agree to just let these things go or accept you aren’t compatible. He clearly isn’t for bending.

He does sound like a good guy so if you want to keep hold of him then it sounds like you need to be the one to change your expectations. Not sure how fair that is though.

He isn’t taking equal responsibility for things is he. I wonder how many men do though. The mental load is real and I think most women do pick that up in families. It’s hard bloody work when you feel like you’re responsible for everything. My DH can be useless but if he dared tell me I was nagging - he would be told that he needs to act like a responsible adult and stop giving me reason to nag!!

He isn’t taking equal responsibility for things is he

Oh c'mon. He works full time, he cooks every evening meal, and he does bathtime. OP is a SAHP.
I think that's a pretty good level of involvement from him tbh. And it's not like he does nothing else.

I get that it's annoying when a partner does a half-assed job of something. But it's a reach to imply that he's not taking responsibility for stuff.

He isn’t taking equal responsibility for things is he. I wonder how many men do though. The mental load is real and I think most women do pick that up in families.

If I was the FT breadwinner and my DH was the SAHP, I'd very much hope that he would take responsibility for more of the of household stuff than me. Especially if (as my late DH did when our kids were small) I came home from a really hard day at work, made the dinner and bathed the baby.

@saraclara but would you shave your legs and leave the shower a mess?

I’m not saying the guy isn’t doing enough but the overriding responsibility for stuff always falls down to the woman, it seems.

I work full time, from home. And I can tell you it’s far easier doing that, than looking after my kids and the house. I do both. I’d choose to work full time from home than be the SAHP.

If he can’t even clean the sink after himself then no, he isn’t taking equal responsibility. He knows she will come along and sort the rest out.

@saraclara but would you shave your legs and leave the shower a mess?

Honestly? Yes, I probably have at times. Especially when pushed fro time in the morning when I worked and had to be out of the house by 6:30.

I'm honestly so surprised at PP. I think it's OP who isnt meeting halfway.

@Wheresmykimchi

I'm honestly so surprised at PP. I think it's OP who isnt meeting halfway.

Me too.

I think what you are missing here OP is that we are living in the middle of a global pandemic! Life is not normal, you’re stuck in the house all day with a new baby, he stuck in the house all day WFH.

please give each other a break! I do think it’s 50:50, both need to compromise- if he wants to have a messy cooker, just leave it until you next wash up. If you want to have a bit of piece and quiet for an hour, he agrees that he won’t have a video playing in the background.
Have another chat with him, see where compromises can be made and remember you are both under enormous strain at the moment. Good luck!!

Lol I think you are a bit of a control freak but he does sound annoying.

I three main problem you both have is that you don't really listen to each other and negotiate. It's all a power play.

For example if he agreed to turn off the Telly so your daughter can eat he should do what he said. What is he, a rebellious teenager? Likewise if you know he doesn't want to watch tv with you then you need to respect that. You're not his mum controlling his screen time.

The different standards around the house are tricky to deal with anyway but impossible if you're not actually capable of forming an agreement and sticking to it.

The, not three. Ffs autocorrect at the moment 🤦‍♀️

@MoanerLisa2021

Well I just tried to talk to him about it all, clearly went about it the wrong way, and it turned into a massive argument. Because the examples from this thread are the ones fresh in my mind I used a few of them for reference, and this in hindsight was probably a bad idea.

He said I get my own way all the time and I control him, and gave a few examples like telling him to come off his iPad and watch a TV programme with me, and it’ll always be something I want to watch not him. This is true, I sort of wheedle at him to watch something with me, even if I know it’s something he doesn’t like. There never seems to be anything on TV that we both want to watch though, but in that case I suppose I should leave him to it on his iPad or do something else while he watches what he likes. I just like the idea of watching TV together, but now I say it I can see that this is a bit pathetic: if there’s nothing on TV we both like then it just isn’t something we can do. He also said if he wants to do something and I don’t then we don’t do it. I feel like this goes both ways but he doesn’t agree. I guess being honest there isn’t really much that we both enjoy doing.

Turns out he’s also upset because we spent Christmas Day with my family and I assumed from the get-go that we would, didn’t even consider spending it with his. I justified this by saying I’ve been really lonely and desperately wanted to see my family after becoming a new mum without any support or anything (Covid was also a massive factor in all of it), but he’s right - ultimately I put my feelings above his and this was wrong. I said as much to him.

I tried to say what some PP have mentioned about having our set tasks around the house and agreeing on a reasonable standard for these to be done to. He said he already does things to what he believes is a ‘reasonable standard’, so obviously what I mean is that we would be agreeing to do things to my standard. So he thinks the way he leaves the bin and the sink after washing up etc. is fine (factoring in time and the amount of effort he wants to put into it) and me asking for it to be cleaner than that is just me ‘having my own way’ again. When I brought up beard hair he said he doesn’t have an infinite amount of time so things just get done to the standard he has time for. Fair enough I guess, he does work full time and then cook and bath the baby pretty much every weekday.

Regarding bottle tops in the drawer, he said it’s OUR drawer and who am I to decide what goes in it. If he wants it to be for utensils and bottle tops then that’s up to him, because he owns the drawer as much as I do.

When I brought up the dog incident he said something about a logical fallacy, that just because I’ve had dogs doesn’t mean I’m right when it comes to dogs, reiterated that me being nervous about their interactions is more likely to make the dog bite the baby.

Tbh I’m a bit confused now but I don’t think I can escape the fact that I am selfish, horrible to live with and massively controlling. Maybe as @Eckhart says we are just incompatible and unable to compromise, and that should say it all. I’m scared now because if we split up I know he will push for 50/50 custody of our daughter and I don’t know how I will cope without her for half of the time, she’s really become my whole world. What a mess :(

I admit I haven't read the whole thread , but after reading this , I think you should re read this as if your partner wrote this about you . Then see how you would feel . Look op we all cock up , my husband always leaves empty toilet roles in the bathroom, it pisses me off on time but I know what battles to pick . If my dh said stop what your doing and watch this TV programme with me , I would be like why ? I'm not interested in it , but I'm willing to sit here with you whilst you watch it and let me read my book flick through my phone/ tablet . Try and find things you both like , even if it's just one film . As for xmas I also think you could of made a compromise?
I think that your not compatible , honestly, i dont think your controlling as such , but you do come as you want your own way all the time and that's childish.

If he doesn't fit your standards why be with him ?

Life is to short given your update you are far to intense it can't last.
Trying putting yourself in his shoes and allow him have an input on arrangements or leave him it isn't fair to give constant criticism or feeling constantly let down by him.

I don't think you're terrible and controlling, I just think perhaps you're a little self-centric right now, perhaps you have a bit of anxiety and this is your way of controlling that.

My supervisor said something once that resonated with me: "The thing gets cleaned by the person who gets irritated by it". I find this to be true when it comes to some of what you've mentioned. He isn't bothered by it, he's cleaned to "his standard" and you want it cleaned to your standard.

So, for example, the beard hair situation. Yes, it's gross, but we sluff off skin cells, you drop your hair.. just in a less concentrated area so less obvious. This means anytime he cleans, he cleans up your hair too. When eat meals, you each have a dish, you share the pots/pans... you can't keep thinking 5% here, and 10% there... its exhausting. Cleaning is obviously a thing for you, so maybe make that your task and he can do the laundry? Or mowing?

He cooks, you should clean up from the cooking. Easy.

I agree with him on the TV situation. He's doing his own thing. Watching the same show isn't really any different to watching a different show but in the same room. It's spending time together.

With regards to Christmas, why didn't he say something? Why didn't he ask to see his family or talk to you about plans? He can't be upset about something he never mentioned.

You're not right, he's not right... But you guys DO need to work on your communication.

Basically- let’s cut through the misogyny because it’s boring.

Does he pull his weight around the house?

Do you feel the need to “nag” because you’re trying to maintain a level of cleanness that he isn’t bothered about?
Even though he works and you both have kids that need parents, does he engage with the domestic activities (e.g. will he ever bathe the baby without you asking/telling him?).?
Why does your “nagging” have anything to do with your sex drive?
Btw, your sex drive really shouldn’t be relevant and suggests you feel guilty about it, which makes me sad for you. Your baby is only 9 months!

@Snog

Try two ticks and a wish Eg that was a delicious meal you made and thanks for trying a new recipe, if I had a wish I'd say that I'd also love if you could wipe the kitchen surfaces after you cook.

I like this idea, I will try it

The dog thing is most concerning me - he's gaslighting you on safety, saying 'because you know more than me you're wrong about this'

And he won't even talk to you about it?

That level of dismissiveness isn't good. Try and get him to consider counselling with you - zoom sessions with someone. Tell him it'll make you feel better about bringing the next baby into the relationship. That it'll help find ways to enjoy each others' company again.

But it concerns me that he's so dismissive of you.

You should read Fair Play. The bit that will apply to you is discussing a "min8mum standard of care" for each task - it's a discussion that needs to be had and a compromise reached. But to discuss it you need to make time (in Pre pandemic times the author suggests over some cocktails outside the house) rather than randomly in the middle of the day. Maybe you could book in a time with a takeaway while baby is asleep? It sounds very tough, I'm sorry OP, although re things like his fizzy drinks intake, you need to pick and choose your battles carefully and stick to things that directly impact you and/or baby.

Ok, so the first thing is he just not doing the basics and is turning you into a nag, because he isn't respecting you enough to just do it properly after the 1st time you had to ask again

Or do you think you have got into the habit of pulling out the negatives of everything. Some people do seem to constantly pick out the negative rather than looking at the good and seeing the not so bad bits are not really so bad.

If it's the first, it's time for a serious chat (no hiding from it) your child should not learn this is how a marriage works, it's not, one should be the nag, it's a joint effort, you want your partners life to be easier and happier and help facilitate that with it being told the same thing 20 times a month.

I don’t think you’re controlling and horrible to live with. At all! Actually, I think he’s being controlling but I know not many here agree with me. I also think he’s gaslighting a bit.

It’s his attitude isn’t it. In the middle of this heavy discussion, he throws Christmas into it, which wasn’t entirely relevant. He has a mouth on him, why didn’t he say something at the time.
And the bottle tops. So what, he gets to say what goes in the drawers?? Seriously. Manky smelly bottle tops.
The beard hairs is just disprespectful. ‘Fuck her, she’ll do it’.
I went back to work, DH was the SAHP. I did at least half the workload after I can home (prob a damn sight more!) and we had a sick child at the time. It was a stressful time.

OP you have a new first baby, you’re lonely, and your partner is not meeting you half way. In normal times, this would be different. You would have company and chat. I don’t know if you’re incompatible. Maybe step back, seeing a counsellor for you might be a good idea. But really, you sound lovely. You sound so thoughtful. I think he’s being a bit of a dick.

He sounds absolutely awful. His responses sound like he's more interested in being right (finding a 'rational' argument according to which he doesn't have to listen to what you're saying, let alone change his behaviour or make compromises) than in being in a kind relationship between equal partners. Half the house is his so he can put rubbish in half of it? Really? By that logic all the things you (both) actually need are in 'your' space, and he's claiming all the remaining space as 'his' 'half' as the space for his crap. It sounds as if in his world (or at least, in the world of the argument he's making) the house is divided into 'his' and 'joint', where you share the latter (and the responsibility) and he has sole ownership of the former.

Similarly the bin and the cooker. You might genuinely have different expectations as to how clean it's kept, how often it's cleaned. But if the bin's got food or other smelly waste on it, it's going to stink at some point. And the cooker will need cleaning. And he's very clearly telling you that he sees that as your job: he's neither going to clear up his splashes as he goes along or put in the additional work of cleaning that results from not doing so. Evidently at some level he expects you to clean up after him--and all his 'logic' is about rationalizing that.

I did some wonderful work with a therapist whose words stuck with DP and me: 'you can be right or you can be married'. It sounds like he's chosen the former. If that doesn't change you need to LTB.

I'm not saying this relationship is doomed. But it sounds very clearly to me like you've been pushed into the position of having to nag him by the fact that he won't take basic responsibility for shared tasks, and do them to an agreed acceptable level (that means he might have to raise his standards: and if he doesn't, then he's not a partner). I wouldn't be surprised if the 'unreasonable' things you're nagging about stem from that dynamic: and he's certainly using them to deflect from (and argue away) your reasonable complaints. It's also not unreasonable to want to spend time together, doing shared activities. And if he doesn't want to, then he's checked out of your relationship. Again, at the moment he's twisting your reasonable expectation (that you should do some things as a couple, including at home) into an unreasonable demand that he should watch 'your' tv. And as others have said, bringing up xmas is also just a strategy to argue his way into being right.

Ultimately it comes down to the question of whether he wants to be in an adult relationship, a partnership of equals. At the moment his bevaviour is saying very clearly that he doesn't. Either that changes (& this needn't take a lot of therapy, just a shortish conversation and a small amount of work on defining an agreed minimum standard of care for househould tasks), or you need to LTB--the alternative is years of resentment and unhappiness.