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Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

999 replies

Roussette · 07/01/2021 10:52

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

OP posts:
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43
DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 13:31

I've never subscribed (at my DFs urging) to the theory that education is in any way connected to morality. Which is why I don't have that weird British deference to the idea of elders and betters.

As a parent, I appreciate that at times "because I said so" has to be closing sentence in a discussion. However it shouldn't become a political system.

Igotjelly · 07/01/2021 13:32

😂 think you're okay. They're away ironing their MAGA flag.

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2021 13:32

@PerkingFaintly

I'm usually very big on education as a salve to the world's ills – and in fact still am.

But someone pointed out last night that Josh Hawley has the education. He knows alright. He wants power, and sees this as the way to get it.

As Trump – like every authoritarian before him – has proven, if you can get enough people to sign up to your cult, then Hawley is right. This gets you power.

Although maybe not for as long as the Trumps and Hawleys would like.

The leaders of authoritarian regimes are usually not uneducated. They know how to harness ignorance those for their own political ambition.

Trump isnt educated. But he has learned how to be an expert in throwing his weight around to get what he wants and how to use others to facilitate this (until they out live their usefulness).

Blinded by Trump's ability to do this, republicans have been seduced by the promise of power. And its only now some are starting to realise they have outlived their usefulness to Trump...

... Some haven't worked this out yet though and still think they have something to gain...

Wherrsmaclickypen · 07/01/2021 13:34

On CNN now cabinet members discussing that Trump still has the nuclear codes yet has been 'banned from twitter'. Absolutely terrifying, really need folks to stip tippytoeing around this and get him out. preferably in straitjacket and cuffs. What more has to happen to drive this?

borntobequiet · 07/01/2021 13:36

Anyone who has ever had an argument with a Jesuit priest will know that it’s perfectly possible to be very well educated and knowledgeable, have excellent critical reasoning skills and put forward a coherent case for anything you choose to believe in.
Casuistry has been responsible for many of the ills that have plagued society.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 13:38

Thanks for that RTB.

I was aware of the appalling trolling of military families with fake Daesh threats. As this article from 2018 makes clear, there are multiple groups at it, and finding it a very fruitful activity.

After all, if you really want to stir up trouble, start by stirring up the military...

'ISIS hackers' threats against U.S. military wives actually came from Russian trolls
www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/u-s-military-wives-threatened-russian-hackers-posing-isis-n872251

Ricketts was one of five military wives who received death threats from the self-styled CyberCaliphate on the morning of Feb. 10, 2015. The warnings led to days of anguished media coverage of Islamic State militants' online reach.

Except it wasn't ISIS.

The Associated Press has found evidence that the women were targeted not by jihadists but by the same Russian hacking group that intervened in the American election and exposed the emails of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign chairman, John Podesta.

Yohoheaveho · 07/01/2021 13:39

Trump has done a huge amount of damage but he has also exposed the methods of the authoritarian strongman/conman type, 'normally' these things happen in countries which don't have the attention of the world focused on them

DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 13:41

@borntobequiet

Anyone who has ever had an argument with a Jesuit priest will know that it’s perfectly possible to be very well educated and knowledgeable, have excellent critical reasoning skills and put forward a coherent case for anything you choose to believe in. Casuistry has been responsible for many of the ills that have plagued society.
Part of the problem with education is that at some point, people twig that religion is a choice, not an innate biological process of humans.

Bearing in mind how irritated I already am at having to live my life according to other peoples choice of sky fairy.

Roussette · 07/01/2021 13:42

And this from August...

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

It might explain why the protestors were treated with kid gloves, why they were ushered in, had selfies with the Police and why, when the steps were a bit steep and it was time to leave the Capitol building, a nice police offer helped you down the steps

OP posts:
dreamingbohemian · 07/01/2021 13:42

@borntobequiet

Anyone who has ever had an argument with a Jesuit priest will know that it’s perfectly possible to be very well educated and knowledgeable, have excellent critical reasoning skills and put forward a coherent case for anything you choose to believe in. Casuistry has been responsible for many of the ills that have plagued society.
Exactly. It's not just about education or reasoning.

The Jesuits were responsible for horrific numbers of deaths in their various inquisitions.
'Race science' and eugenics were once uncritically accepted by the scientific establishment.
Engineers, scientists and doctors were over-represented in the Nazi party.
Today's far-right elites have Ivy League and Oxbridge degrees.

It's not just about teaching people how to think, it's about teaching them not to hate.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 13:48

BTW, I am very pleased that Priti Patel was explicit in blaming Trump's behaviour this morning:

Capitol siege: Trump's words 'directly led' to violence, Patel says
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55571482

(Let's gloss over for the moment that I'm actively surprised at her doing this after some of the shit that's come from Boris's Brexit Bunch. I'll take the good here.)

knittingaddict · 07/01/2021 13:49

I will admit that last whenever a Republican came onto the tv screen and condemned Trump or the coup, I childishly pointed at the tv and said "you caused this". Every Republican that failed to repudiate Trump or who actively supported him helped make last night happen. They get no brownie points from me now that they are trying to distance themselves. Self serving cowards, the lot of them.

terrywynne · 07/01/2021 13:50

I so agree with this. I despair that people just don't seem to learn from history, and that may be that they don't know much history in the first place.

I think part of the problem is that for many people history is a set of fixed facts (dates, names, battles etc) and that it is often used to create a particular sense of identity at a particular moment in time. Hence the handwringing over rewriting history if you suggest there might be perspectives that haven been overlooked and which might be worth studying... this is a) quite boring to children and b) allows people to say there is no point to studying because we know what happened.

I would rather see it as the study of people than of facts. Our stories, our motivations, emotions, communities, inventions etc - good, bad and muddling along in the middle. There are lessons to be learned (though I don't think you can take exact lessons from the past because variables change and no situation is the same). We can seek to understand how we got to where we are, and how history has been used for particular ends. And it's all rather fascinating (and enhanced by new perspectives and evidence). Unfortunately a lot of people have given up on history before you get to study it along those lines.

Wherrsmaclickypen · 07/01/2021 13:50

@Roussette

And this from August...

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

It might explain why the protestors were treated with kid gloves, why they were ushered in, had selfies with the Police and why, when the steps were a bit steep and it was time to leave the Capitol building, a nice police offer helped you down the steps

This, and even sampling the widespread condemnation today I think it would be very helpful if everyone could stop sugarcoating this egregious white entitlement and call those involved TERRORISTS, because thats what they are. Pipe bombs. Molotov cocktails. Religious symbolism. Cultism. FFS.

Anything else is just plain wrong.

VVKills27 · 07/01/2021 13:53

@CaveMum perfectly summed up!

HoneysuckIejasmine · 07/01/2021 13:57

It's been a wild 48 hours. Highs, lows and hopefully progress coming from the figurative rubble.

Roussette · 07/01/2021 13:59

The woman that died.... this is what she said the day before on her twitter a/c.

A day before the protest she tweeted: 'Nothing will stop us....they can try and try and try but the storm is here and it is descending upon DC in less than 24 hours....dark to light!'

She had also recently retweeted video of President Trump urging his fans to join the Washington march

Trump and his enablers. They are the cause.

OP posts:
knittingaddict · 07/01/2021 14:00

I was listening to a podcast this morning and they were saying that one of the medical emergencies that caused a death may have been a heart attack. Apparently some flash bangs went off and the man collapsed.
Protesters around him preformed bad cpr on him and he was stretchered away, looking grey and not breathing. Very sad that anyone had to die because of this lunacy.

Wherrsmaclickypen · 07/01/2021 14:01

Even here we are seemingly giving all these lunatics the courtesy of explaining away their radicalisation and culpability and how we all got here, and rationalising it as an aberration, a courtesy not seen much with e.g. Islamic fundamentalists. Surely its a much baser fundamental human fallibility of learned behaviour, actions and consequences? Toddler Trump got away with appalling conduct all along the line without reprisal and his supporters expect no less.

DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 14:01

.

Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)
Lweji · 07/01/2021 14:02

Like McConnell, Graham, Mulvaney, etc, Kellyanne Con-allthe-way's outrage is challenged by many in her hypocrisy (see comments).

twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/1346933679642169344

Trump hasn't been joking. Not as his core base are concerned.

Destinysdaughter · 07/01/2021 14:06

@knittingaddict

I will admit that last whenever a Republican came onto the tv screen and condemned Trump or the coup, I childishly pointed at the tv and said "you caused this". Every Republican that failed to repudiate Trump or who actively supported him helped make last night happen. They get no brownie points from me now that they are trying to distance themselves. Self serving cowards, the lot of them.
This, plus all the resignations, I keep thinking it's like rats leaving a sinking ship.
Destinysdaughter · 07/01/2021 14:10

On CNN there was a young womann who interviewed some of the crowd outside. She said they were mainly an older crowd who genuinely believed thee election was fraudulent and felt that they had no choice. Also, that a lot of pp just got swept up in all the excitement of it all. I dont think there was some grand plan, i think they just got lucky.

ListeningQuietly · 07/01/2021 14:11

This did not start with Trump
it started with Gingrich
but hopefully it will end with Trump

the USA is no longer a beacon of Democracy to any country in the world
that will hurt

DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 14:12

She said they were mainly an older crowd who genuinely believed thee election was fraudulent and felt that they had no choice

Systemic racism is OK though, for example. Bombing babies in faraway countries is also OK. But this ... they had "no choice" ? Oh do give over.

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