Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

Does he not have a team of sensible, clever people who can give wise counsel in the Oval Office?

As long as it's advice he likes, yes.

Part of being a leader is being able to take and act on advice you don't like. A good example being Mrs Thatcher and the UKs AIDS programme in the 80s. Advisers showed here that it was a serious problem that was not confined to non-Tories and only education education education (real education, not the farce that Eton charge you for) would have a chance of preventing an epidemic.

It's well known she really disliked the advice. But she followed it. Saving lives in doing so.

Compare and contrast with Boris. And then vote Tory anyway.

so busy were we all ridiculing a man who can barely read, who is staggeringly ignorant, and seems not to know how to behave in public that we all dropped our guard
This^

What time is Trumpties Twitter ban up?

“We’re storming the Capitol. It’s a revolution.” God.

I think Biden needs to make a much bigger effort in genuinely reaching out to the disenfranchised masses.

Care to explain why they are disenfranchised rather than merely misinformed?

Trump supporters dont face barriers to voting.
Trump supporters dont come from the most economically deprived group.

It will be interesting to see what Congress gets up to today.

Ilhan Omar says she will introduce articles of impeachment.
Many other Dems calling for the 25th to be invoked.
Some also calling for congressmen who encouraged yesterday's events to be expelled.

My gut feeling is that nothing will really happen and everyone will just try to get through the next 14 days in one piece.

But they will probably announce an inquiry into why security was so dire yesterday. (Like we don't know)

Delusional:

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/among-insurrectionists/617580/

'Insurrection Day, 12:40 p.m.: A group of about 80 lumpen Trumpists were gathered outside the Commerce Department, near the White House. They organized themselves in a large circle, and stared at a boombox rigged to a megaphone. Their leader and, for some, savior—a number of them would profess to me their belief that the 45th president is an agent of God and his son, Jesus Christ—was rehearsing his pitiful list of grievances, and also fomenting a rebellion against, among others, the klatch of treacherous Republicans who had aligned themselves with the Constitution and against him.'

It's well known she really disliked the advice. But she followed it. Saving lives in doing so.

See, I'd have thought that was a basic pre-requisite for high office. All leaders need to outsource fact finding and planning and then make the decision based on expert opinion.

It worries me that what is going on in USA is possible here. It seems dramatic, but Gove isn't keen on experts and he still rather fancies being PM, doesn't he?

I hope some good can come out of this, in that the Trump name is forever stained and not one of them can run for office ever again.

He was priming Ivanka for public office, Don Jr wanted this. No, won't happen, after yesterday

... and Ossoff won by 36,000.

www.politico.com/news/2021/01/06/trump-loyalty-capitol-attack-455667

www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01/06/opinion/impeach-trump-tonight/

Seb Dance @sebdance
When the dust settles we need to have a serious conversation about how we equip people with the critical analytical skills they need in an increasingly online world. Sifting fact from fiction must be everyone’s core skill.

Not about last night but equally relevant.

Especially given some of the drivel posted on the last thread.

Now THAT is good news! Lion Well done Georgia. You are saving the country at this moment in time

[quote DuncinToffee]Silvia Merler @SMerler

From @YouGov poll: among Republican voters, 45% approve of the storming of Capitol, 30% think the perpetrators are 'patriots', 52% think Biden is at least partly to blame for it, and 85% think it would be inappropriate to remove Trump from office after this. This is not a fringe

twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?s=19[/quote]
They're depressing stats.

People are posting on twitter about what an awful start to 2021, I'm afraid to say I can't see how this damage won't ripple for decades.

I know, Wherrsmaclickypen!

See also the incredibly stupid guy who filmed the woman being shot and then went on TV to talk about how they were part of a mass armed group forcing their way into the nation's legislature during a critical democratic activity, through doors barricaded with furniture...

He didn't even seem to realise how much trouble he's in.

He and wailing Elizabeth remind me of a type I've met a lot of: the sort of people who get out of their cars to pet the lions at the safari park and are surprised to be mauled. Or the sort of glossy backbacker who wants to go out drinking in the favella because their guidebook says it's dangerous and they think it will be an interesting experience.

They behave like life is a theme park laid on for them to have thrilling – but ultimately safe – packaged "experiences". They imagine they'll float over the world in their balloon, observing the wildlife below.

No, apparently shit is real. You can get hurt. And killed.

.

Absolutely concur that we need to evaluate how we help people navigate the online world and the vast amounts of misinformation on there. I consider myself quite computer literate and have a good level of education but still find it a minefield. Its unreasonable to expect people to automatically be equipped with the ability to wade through the nonsense.

[quote DuncinToffee]Silvia Merler @SMerler

From @YouGov poll: among Republican voters, 45% approve of the storming of Capitol, 30% think the perpetrators are 'patriots', 52% think Biden is at least partly to blame for it, and 85% think it would be inappropriate to remove Trump from office after this. This is not a fringe

twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?s=19[/quote]
How depressing. Especially the 85%. I am astonished that he held the support of so many senior republicans for so long.

I know that Jo Biden has a good reputation for building bridges and cross partisan working but I think he will really struggle to bring America together after this, anyone would.

Donald definitely does not have a Leo from the West Wing he wouldn’t listen to him.

I think there are limits in how much we can educate people re online information

Most people believe racist crap because they're racist. They believe stupid conspiracy theories because they don't know much about how things work in the world, or because they have serious personal issues.

People are not coming to the internet as blank slates. They believe what they want to believe. Absolutely we need to counter online radicalisation and combat disinformation, but there is a whole lot that needs to happen more broadly.

You get a consistent fifth/quarter right-wing views in UK opinion polling too, it was clearly visible in UK polls through the Brexit debate.

Sadly they managed to get hold of the levers in both the US and the UK.

And we need to value expertise again and get rid time the idea that all opinions are equally valid. Yes my opinion on dark chocolate being the best is as valid as your opinion that milk chocolate is the best. But the opinion that vaccines are used as mind control based on some random person who read a random webpage is not as valid as the opinion of the person who studied for 6 years and has 5 years of research experience since (Or whatever). And the media needs to stop giving all views equal airtime. It's like the BBC and climate change reporting (in the past they may have improved). 1 person saying it is happening, 1 sceptic. When to represent actual scientific opinion it should have been 9 saying it is happening and 1 sceptic. (It is a while since i read the exavt analogy so the numbers may be off but I think it was around 90% scientific consensus on climate change but made to look 50/50 because of the idea you get one person in the news from each side)

@terrywynne I think experts will rise again!

amp.usatoday.com/amp/6577765002?__twitter_impression=true
What is sedition? US Capitol breach was 'almost textbook' example, legal expert says

But of course identifying this and pointing out acts of treason isnt ok. The democrats and CNN shouldn't be do that. They shouldn't use words accurately.

Apart from the fact its the media's entire purpose to identify and accurately describe events. And their ramifications.

If we don't describe terrorists as terrorists we can't put in anti terrorist measures nor prosecute for terrorist actions. If we dont describe sedition then we can't take action against those who declare war on the state itself.

The actions of the crowd were “inexcusable” and crimes, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan Matthew Schneider told the Detroit Free Press, part of the USA TODAY Network

“There's a difference, a big difference, between peaceful protests and expressing your freedoms,” said Schneider, who was appointed to his post by Trump.

“This is not it. The violent protesters are committing crimes, and they have to stop right now and this is not what our Constitution protects.”

@PerkingFaintly
It’s like it’s a game to them. Let’s have a revolution and then what? Who keeps the everything running; schools, power & water...
What happens if the other side doesn’t agree with your revolution?
Who is the C in C? Who will the military follow?
There was no thought to the consequences.