Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

@ListeningQuietly

This did not start with Trump it started with Gingrich but hopefully it will end with Trump

the USA is no longer a beacon of Democracy to any country in the world
that will hurt

I think you're way off - it started with, if not before Nixon. Who was never prosecuted as the traitor he was in 1968.

Deaths from the Riot

• One shot by security
• One heart attack
• One tasered themselves
• not sure yet about the 4th but the WP and NYT both said "medical"

@terrywynne

I so agree with this. I despair that people just don't seem to learn from history, and that may be that they don't know much history in the first place.

I think part of the problem is that for many people history is a set of fixed facts (dates, names, battles etc) and that it is often used to create a particular sense of identity at a particular moment in time. Hence the handwringing over rewriting history if you suggest there might be perspectives that haven been overlooked and which might be worth studying... this is a) quite boring to children and b) allows people to say there is no point to studying because we know what happened.

I would rather see it as the study of people than of facts. Our stories, our motivations, emotions, communities, inventions etc - good, bad and muddling along in the middle. There are lessons to be learned (though I don't think you can take exact lessons from the past because variables change and no situation is the same). We can seek to understand how we got to where we are, and how history has been used for particular ends. And it's all rather fascinating (and enhanced by new perspectives and evidence). Unfortunately a lot of people have given up on history before you get to study it along those lines.

People see history as learning fact from the past rather than principles relevant to the present and future.

One of the things I learnt most from doing media and history together was the two generally work together to create politics. Or history just the past version of how politics have turned out and the version of it you read is how the media presents the past.

Its almost like maths or science. You add this to that in this environment and you get this set outcome. Just a bit more messy as the inputs and outputs are less defined and how you write it up and present your results is a bit more vague with no set principles.

I've always been an all rounder so I am good at maths and science as well as the arts and humanities. People think of them as completely different sets of disciplines, but I don't really see it quite the same way.

Its all pretty formulatic really. But then people REALLY struggle with algebra and/or joined up thinking.

- One tasered themselves

Assuming that's true, it kinda sets the bar for the brains here.

@ListeningQuietly

Deaths from the Riot

• One shot by security
• One heart attack
• One tasered themselves
• not sure yet about the 4th but the WP and NYT both said "medical"

Guy who fell 30ft off scaffolding?

Tasering yourself. Thats very Darwin Award.

Ah, found you! Trying to keep up, thanks so much for these threads, they have been really helpful all these years...

One tasered themselves

'Nuff said.

People see history as learning fact from the past rather than principles relevant to the present and future.

Worse, they see it as somehow disconnected from the present. We are only here because of how we got here.

The old trope about every generation thinking they discovered sex sort of sums it up.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the best statesmen - the ones we revere - all had a damn good grasp of history. Whether formal or not. And if they didn't, their advisers did. No one who has read Herodotus or Suetonius or Livy or Dio would be remotely surprised at current events.

@Destinysdaughter

On CNN there was a young womann who interviewed some of the crowd outside. She said they were mainly an older crowd who genuinely believed thee election was fraudulent and felt that they had no choice. Also, that a lot of pp just got swept up in all the excitement of it all. I dont think there was some grand plan, i think they just got lucky.

Reread this and substitute

'they were mainly a crowd of patriotic Muslim adolescents who regarded the regime as unlawful and felt they had no choice'

I am white. I saw footage of the "patriot Moms" and initially thought unsinister high jinks and/or possibly delusion and slight embarrassment, I didnt think terrorism. I didnt feel scared.

But that is wrong. Ludicrous double standards.

It is terrorism. They had a choice. They need to face the same consequences. Being a churchgoing apple pie mom is not a mitigation.

DGR
The hyper-partisanship and creating the gap down the middle is definitely Gingrich and McConnell.
Before them working across the floor was very common
visual.ly/community/Infographics/politics/us-senate-voting-similarity-networks

And only with its return will America move forwards

@DGRossetti

People see history as learning fact from the past rather than principles relevant to the present and future.

Worse, they see it as somehow disconnected from the present. We are only here because of how we got here.

The old trope about every generation thinking they discovered sex sort of sums it up.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the best statesmen - the ones we revere - all had a damn good grasp of history. Whether formal or not. And if they didn't, their advisers did. No one who has read Herodotus or Suetonius or Livy or Dio would be remotely surprised at current events.

I'd go with that about good statesmen. I think its a fair assessment.

I also think that people who have the capacity to imagine the worst possible outcome and crucially are able to put THEMSELVES into that position are also good politicians.

Its when you have a bunch of politicians unable or incapable of that you have a problem.

What is telling about both Trump and Johnson is neither have the knowledge or capacity for either of those traits. And they want the office for personal power rather than in the name of the people they swore to serve.

I also think that people who have the capacity to imagine the worst possible outcome and crucially are able to put THEMSELVES into that position are also good politicians.

Imagination is a good proxy for intelligence. Much better than what school you went to - or what grades you got ... Hence the whacky interview questions that abound.

@ListeningQuietly

DGR The hyper-partisanship and creating the gap down the middle is definitely Gingrich and McConnell. Before them working across the floor was very common visual.ly/community/Infographics/politics/us-senate-voting-similarity-networks

And only with its return will America move forwards

I suspect that bird has well and truly flown. The past 12 years has been an ever-widening divide and I don't know how we get past that.

At the base of it, the people who need to do the work are the politicians, and none of them will jeopardise re-election.

gwenneh
If Biden uses his time well to push through

• removal of gerrymandering
• removal of voter suppression

and more states follow Nebraska's excellent example and maybe look at how their primary process works for the whole electorate then candidates will rely less on being partisan

Campaign finance reform and getting rid of PACs again would be nice.

But in the short term I suspect Biden will square up to the Social media companies and back the EU in clipping their wings

DC apparently in rolling lockdown for the next 15 days due to state of emergency. Just off a works call with the team based there.

@DGRossetti
I have to point out that Boris Johnson read Classics!
Not everyone learns from their studies.

@ListeningQuietly

gwenneh If Biden uses his time well to push through

• removal of gerrymandering
• removal of voter suppression

and more states follow Nebraska's excellent example and maybe look at how their primary process works for the whole electorate then candidates will rely less on being partisan

Campaign finance reform and getting rid of PACs again would be nice.

But in the short term I suspect Biden will square up to the Social media companies and back the EU in clipping their wings

I'm wary of subscribing to a view that just because Democrats aren't Republicans, they are somehow better or different.

At the end of the day, a failing system of governance has replaced one person elected through a failing system of governance with another.

Meet the new boss ! Same as the old boss !

as Townsend wrote and Daltrey sang.

Part of the problem is the HIGNFY gag recorded before the election The old white guy won isn't really a gag. It's a truth borne of the failure of the US to look at itself and fix what's wrong.

And I know the painful and bitter irony that I write that from the UK. Which itself has collectively decided to ignore systemic failings and concentrate on irrelevances instead.

Btw I wasn't agreeing with what she said, I was just reporting it!

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@DGRossetti
I have to point out that Boris Johnson read Classics!
Not everyone learns from their studies.[/quote]
I was going to point that out!

Fun fact, history was introduced to Oxford as a vocational course to train future diplomats and politicians.

History as a university course that is!

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@DGRossetti
I have to point out that Boris Johnson read Classics!
Not everyone learns from their studies.[/quote]
Another complicating factor ...

However given Boris made a 2-part BBC series which did quite a good job of comparing the EU to the Roman Empire (and another 2 parter where he discussed the rise of Islam) I would wonder ...

The Democrats have a massive interest in reducing Gerrymandering and increasing Electoral participation
(redistricting will increase the number of State seats they hold)

So I see good reasons why they will push ahead with it.

At least Biden isn't going to go on camera and say I love you to white supremacists ransacking the Capitol

Both parties have issues but this is not 'same as the old boss' territory, not this time

Imo trump should be held somewhat accountable for what has happened. I appreciate not everyone would agree but he really has done more damage than any other president in my lifetime that I can remember

@ListeningQuietly

The Democrats have a massive interest in reducing Gerrymandering and increasing Electoral participation (redistricting will increase the number of State seats they hold)

So I see good reasons why they will push ahead with it.

Yes if the Dems reduce gerrymandering, reduce voting restrictions, and give DC statehood, they will be well set up going forward.

Of course being the Democrats they're just as likely to blow the next two years and not do anything, like last time