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Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

999 replies

Roussette · 07/01/2021 10:52

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
prettybird · 07/01/2021 12:56

Where is Trump's "Leo"?

I think Trump has gone through about 4 (or is it 5?) Chiefs of Staff Shock

Roussette · 07/01/2021 12:57

Mick Mulvaney has resigned.

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terrywynne · 07/01/2021 12:58

[quote inquietant]@terrywynne I think experts will rise again![/quote]
I hope so! But I think expert's need to think about how they communicate if they want to rise again.

I know UK communities where an expert coming in and 'telling' would just be met with "who do they think they are coming in and telling us we're stupid and lecturing us what to do."

Musing on it, I wonder if we could learn more from education programmes in African and Asian countries. The type of vaccination education programme (for example) go in via trusted local figures, and train up local people to go in and chat and build up education and awareness rather than a didactic, top down, this the right and you must be educated approach (that is sadly what I see in some of my social media circles)

MaryLeeOnHigh · 07/01/2021 12:58

B) invest money in education and work to install a respect for education and knowledge to counteract this 'we don't need expert's attitude that emerged recently

This. Also sorely needed in the UK. One of the major difficulties with the debate is trying to engage with people who are wholly unable to use any form of critical thinking and logic. It really needs to be a compulsory element of the curriculum.

Mypathtriedtokillme · 07/01/2021 13:00

@Wherrsmaclickypen

Amidst all the madness, some of which was predictable and largely preventable I simply cant get over the white, stupid entitlement of little wailing maced Elizabeth from Knoxville. She simply had no fear of authority or of being shot, did she, with cultish belief in her moral superiority and 'rightness', How this would have played out so differently if the protestors were black or muslim doesnt bear thinking about. A glimpse of how it must be for so many American citizens. Very sad.
The “but it was a revolution” Whine actually made me both laugh and incredulous.
NotaRealLawyer · 07/01/2021 13:01

I've lurked for many years on these excellent threads. I always come here to see what's really happening.
Appreciate all the hard work that goes on. Thanks so much, from one of very many lurkers.
Mick Mulvaney's just resigned I see, " I can't stay!"

inquietant · 07/01/2021 13:02

The most inspiring thing from the whole election in Georgia was the registration of new voters and that community engagement.

Roussette · 07/01/2021 13:02

President Donald Trump’s former chief of staff and current special envoy to Northern Ireland said Thursday that he’s resigning from his diplomatic post.

“I called [Secretary of State] Mike Pompeo last night to let him know I was resigning from that. I can’t do it. I can’t stay,” Mick Mulvaney told CNBC in an exclusive interview.

“Those who choose to stay, and I have talked with some of them, are choosing to stay because they’re worried the president might put someone worse in,” Mulvaney added.

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NotaRealLawyer · 07/01/2021 13:03

AH! Beaten to it by Rousette!Grin
< returns to lurking >

GoLightlyontheEarth · 07/01/2021 13:04

@MaryLeeOnHigh

B) invest money in education and work to install a respect for education and knowledge to counteract this 'we don't need expert's attitude that emerged recently

This. Also sorely needed in the UK. One of the major difficulties with the debate is trying to engage with people who are wholly unable to use any form of critical thinking and logic. It really needs to be a compulsory element of the curriculum.

I so agree with this. I despair that people just don't seem to learn from history, and that may be that they don't know much history in the first place.
Roussette · 07/01/2021 13:06

NotaRealLawyer nice to see you. Smile

There are some funny tweets about Elizabeth from Knoxille....."but it's a revolution wah wah wah2

This made me laugh

'I am trying to take a nap, but I just thought about Elizabeth from Knoxville specifically picking out her piano scarf to wear for the revolution and now I cannot stop thinking about this'
😂

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dreamingbohemian · 07/01/2021 13:09

I'm less hopeful we can go back to having respect for experts.

The reason the internet is so transformative is that there is no longer this barrier between the average person and all the world's information. Experts used to be necessary how else would the average person learn or understand everything going on in the world? It would cost a lot of money and time to buy all the books and newspapers and scientific reports needed to be fully informed about things. Much easier to rely on experts journalists, academics, scientists, doctors etc.

But now all that information is available online for free, people have direct access. They 'do their own research'. Overall it's an amazing thing but there are downsides.

I don't know how much of this you can backtrack now. What you can do is put more regulation on internet providers and websites to not publish incendiary material in the first place. But that's not going to go very far.

Roussette · 07/01/2021 13:09

Mick Mulvaney is a shit. He's trying to save his skin. He has enabled Trump the last 4 years and was a covid denier. No sympathy and pathetic for him to jump ship with only 13 days to go to try and look like 'the big man'

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Mypathtriedtokillme · 07/01/2021 13:10

DH said “what sort of revolutionist tells someone their name and where they are from? Definitely not one who hasn’t learnt of revolutions from romance novels.”

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 13:11

Yes, RTB, and I think that David Allen Green post someone posted on the previous thread bears repeating:

The contest between violent populism and constitutionalism – and why it was not inevitable that yesterday’s attempted coup in the United States would fail
7th January 2021
davidallengreen.com

Yesterday we watched, in real-time, an attempted coup in the United States.

Was it an attempted coup?

Some are already fussing about the ‘coup’ word – that it was merely a security violation, a mere matter of public order.

That view is not correct, for three reasons.

It was an attempted coup.

First, an essential constitutional stage for a peaceful transfer of power was disrupted.

The constitutional stage – usually a formality – was the certification of the electoral college vote by congress.

It is this certification that would make the inauguration of a new president happen on 20 January 2021 by automatic operation of law.

No certification, no certainty of inauguration of a new president.

The disruption was the object and the effect of the disorder.

And until and unless the electoral college vote is certified then the 20 January inauguration is uncertain.

(The resumed Congress is still considering the electoral college votes as I type.)

Second, the disruption was at the behest of the losing candidate – or, if you nod-along with plausible deniability, it was at least done so as to ensure he stayed in office.

It was disruption with the purpose of keeping a losing candidate in office.

And that candidate then praised these ‘special’ people for what they did.

Indeed, for the candidate’s daughter, these disruptors were ‘patriots’.

And third, the disruption was forceful.

The mob forced their way in, and there are reports of fatalities and injuries.

This was not a peaceful protest or an exercise in civil disobedience.

So a group (a) used force to (b) disrupt an essential constitutional process (c) at the behest of (or in the interests of) a politician – and if that disruption had succeeded, the inauguration of a new president would have been rendered uncertain.

That was an attempt at a coup.

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2021 13:12

Yes people don't understand the difference between opinion and evidence / fact based journalism.

The bbc has completely lost the plot on this.

Its the basis of liberal democracy. The use of reasoning and logic to demonstrate the value of an argument or why something is happening. That and the ability to think about things from a variety of perspectives whilst always referring back to the material reality of an issue.

Observe, identify, describe, reason and then check and challenge the weaknesses in your own argument using the first three things. It that order.

Not decide your opinion first and try to fit the world around your idea (thats ideology and belief)

DeRigueurMortis · 07/01/2021 13:12

What's the point in resigning now? Same with all the u-turn senators like McConnell spouting about honour and democracy.

It make me pull this face involuntarily Hmm.

The point at which you decided to serve in the Trump administration and/or offered your unwavering support over the 4 years was the measure of your character/morals/beliefs not exiting at 5 to midnight like Cinderella on steroids.

To continue the analogy - if the shoe fits at least have the decency to lay claim to it.

Mypathtriedtokillme · 07/01/2021 13:12

I’m adding how to determine and interpret data skills, to go with Critical thinking skills needed.

DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 13:15

See, I'd have thought that was a basic pre-requisite for high office. All leaders need to outsource fact finding and planning and then make the decision based on expert opinion.

The official position in the UK is that experts aren't needed. It's official because the man that said it was elected while operating on that basis.

Remember how Brexit got done ? By dismissing expert advice.

So now in the UK - and US - it's become an article of political faith to only listen to your experts.

This all started years ago, when "balance" became a thing (sneaked in under the guide of discrimination ...). That's when a programme about astronomy ("Stargazing Live") was pressured to have an astrologer on to "put the alternative view". Some things don't have "balance" - especially real science. Flat earthers aren't holding a reasoned and possible alternative to the reality of the universe, so can be safely non-invited to anything that claims to be scientific.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 13:17

I'm usually very big on education as a salve to the world's ills – and in fact still am.

But someone pointed out last night that Josh Hawley has the education. He knows alright. He wants power, and sees this as the way to get it.

As Trump – like every authoritarian before him – has proven, if you can get enough people to sign up to your cult, then Hawley is right. This gets you power.

Although maybe not for as long as the Trumps and Hawleys would like.

ListeningQuietly · 07/01/2021 13:19

McConnell and Gingrich started creating this monster 20 years ago.

The Supreme Court facilitated it by not ruling against Voter Suppression and Gerrymandering

Hopefully as Biden has all 3 levels for the next 2 years
he will able to use the outrage of the world to kick some sense into the system

HecouldLickEm · 07/01/2021 13:23

It's astonishing but after what happened here I see worrying parallels but we didn't have violence.

A group of people hijacking the seat of democracy because they do not agree with the result of a vote

DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 13:27

.

Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)
RedToothBrush · 07/01/2021 13:27

Nikki Wentling @nikkiwentling
The woman who was shot and killed during the takeover of the Capitol Building today was an Air Force veteran

Kristofer Goldsmith @krisgoldsmith85
I’ve spent years researching and warning about veterans being radicalized by foreign and domestic actors spreading viral, bogus, and hateful content. @VetAffairsDems investigated and recently a report. @HouseVetAffairs objected. One of those vets just died in the Capitol.

When I finally got to testify about the 191-page report that I wrote about @VVAmerica’s troll investigation before House Vet Affairs, all the Republicans wasted their time and mine complaining about how Facebook and Twitter were mean to conservatives. This death is on their hands

To be more specific: this death is on the hands of the former committee Ranking Member, @DrPhilRoe, and that of his staff. It was under their direction and leadership that Republicans blocked any and all efforts by Dems to combat the targeting of vets for radicalization online.

Vietnam Veterans of America’s report is available at t.co/hcXA6ln9iX

The @VetAffairsDems’ report, as well as links to the hearing that I described, are available here. Big thanks to @RepMarkTakano and staff for their leadership and persistence overcoming Republicans’ partisan roadblocks: t.co/XBEjq9k0Q6

One of the features of authoritarians and their regimes is the anti-intellectual backlash and desire to destroy education. I personally think there are some problems with arrogance within some intellectual circles when they fail to properly critically examine themselves and be held to account and we are seeing a lot of this atm. That is something that needs addressing - this creep of ideology into education rather than education being based on information.

BUT the problem authoritarians have most with education is its purpise is to criticalky examine, name and identify. It gives people the skills to critical assess whether what they are told is accurate or a pile of bunkem. And thats a threat to their power which relies on the mob, false promotion of fictitious threats which creates fear and the general ignorance of the public.

knittingaddict · 07/01/2021 13:30

Just popping my head through the door to see if greenshoots made it to the new thread. Is it safe to enter?

Swipe left for the next trending thread