Ds (13) sobbing uncontrollably about lack of hobbies and talents - where have gone wrong

[looseddaughter]

Ds1 (13) has just gone to bed after a good 90 mins of ranting and sobbing over his perceived lack of hobbies and talents. He was as upset as I have ever seen him and it was horrible.

It started as I told him he'd had enough laptop for the day when he said he was going to his room and he said there was nothing else to do and it spiralled from there. We have had a pretty shit holiday in the sense that we've been in most days (isolated for a week and then obviously not a lot you can do in tier 4) so I don't know if there's an element of boredom after having been pent up but it did seem deeper.

He keep saying whatever he does there are 'people 10 steps ahead of me,' and 'I just want a hobby I can do that I'm good at and enjoy...a talent.' This was all through sobs. To be honest, it's true that he doesn't really have a hobby. He loves reading but only ever wants to do it just before bed, obviously enjoys his laptop and is a history fanatic so uses it for research, documentaries and history- based computer games. He doesn't do lego, likes the odd boardgame and doesn't do any sport except cricket, which was a nightmare last season as despite doing brilliantly in training he had a few nightmare games and did silly things like running himself out. I know he felt shit at the end of the season.

I think he tends to give up on things as soon as they're difficult. He bought some figures, again, history based, last year that needed painting and after the initial enthusiasm he got fed up of how fiddly it was and left it. Same thing happened with model making a couple of years ago. He got really into cycling last year but then seemed to just go right off it - not really sure why. He just gets these initial bursts of enthusiasm and then everything peters into nothingness. It doesn't help that he seems quite limited socially, even Covid aside, and despite having friends in school and telling me about them he rarely interacts with them outside school. Before lockdown never went out with them unless it was a party and now rarely online with them.

He's academically able and in top sets for everything with a real flair I'd say for English and humanities. I don't know if this is part of the problem as in a lot of things come quite easily to him then when something doesn't he just stops. He plays clarinet but has no real enthusiasm for it and moans endlessly about practising but insists he wants to carry on when I ask. Today he was crying about making no progress in it and I did explain (nicely) that he does the bare minimum practice so what does he expect? I was trying to say people with 'talents' or hobbies are prepared to spend hours on them and that's how they get good, which he doesn't do really, aside from cricket, which still didn't go well. He asked for a guitar last year but again had no interest in it really and it has barely been touched for months.

Earlier we'd watched a French crime drama with subtitles because he loves the genre and I casually suggested it as I like them and he's doing French at school. He's in Y9 and getting what the school call 'grades 7-9', so doing really well. However, he got really upset and said he couldn't hear any of the words he was supposed to know. I tried to explain that was to be expected but he kept saying how hard it was then mentioned a boy in his class who gets full marks every time and has apparently read LOTR in French.

I just don't know how to handle this. On the one hand I obviously don't want to pressure him and don't want him comparing himself to others in an unhealthy way, but on the other hand I kind of do think a hobby would do him good and have often felt he could do with sticking at things a bit more but I don't know how to approach it. Cricket is the thing he has devoted most time and energy to and, as I said, it doesn't really seem to have paid off. I was also trying to get across that hobbies aren't necessarily about excelling at something but are about enjoyment, but I think that's hard for him to get, especially where sport is concerned.

I also feel the usual guilt as his dad and I are divorced and I feel that disadvantages him because of living between two houses etc. Dad is a musician but has never got involved with the music practice and I feel ds is keeping it on to please his dad but also won't ask him for help. I don't really have hobbies, or not ones that are active - just things like reading, watching films, travel... not things where I actually do anything so not a good role model. Don't know - feel we have let him down and really don't know how to help.

Your son sounds a lot like my son at his age. Similarly he was academically gifted without really trying. I think that led to him getting frustrated with hobbies and sport when he wasn't immediately good at them and he used to give up easily. I can't offer any advice because Covid and isolation will be playing a big part in this and my son didn't have that to contend with however he is now in his mid twenties and is a History teacher and a wonderful young man. At around 14/15 he stopped trying to be good at sport/music/skateboarding and various other short lived and expensive hobbies and embraced being academic. He now says that he tried all those things as that's what the cool kids did and he was desperate to fit in as being brainy wasn't considered cool. Maybe he could find a hobby that utilises his academic skills, something like writing a blog, online story writing or something similar. Sorry I can't offer any advice but I do remember similar episodes of my son feeling like this so I do empathise and feel your pain but hang on in there and just keep reminding him what a wonderful young man he is.

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=time+team

There are 128 episodes of Time Team - he could get an idea of what interests him and a view of history as a job.

Seeing your update, it actually sounds like he has a lot of interests and hobbies! (Although the word "hobby" might not be quite the right term. It doesn't matter though, he sounds like a kid with a well rounded personality who is interested in things.)

I read this and had two thoughts. The first was how lucky your son is to have a mum who is so balanced and perceptive. You seem to have an incredible handle on this. The second was your son sounds very similar to mine at 13, 5 years ago. He was “tricky” , over sensitive, quick to give up on things, unsociable and no real hobbies.. except for a bit of cricket! He came through it and has just had a good first term at uni, making friends and his attitude is soooo much more positive, this Xmas holiday has been a joy. I’ve no real advice, I’m sorry, because he seemed to turn a corner on his own... but we didn’t “force” him to do anything.. we were just always there if he did want to be with us or do anything.
I just want you to know that it will be fine .. just get through lockdown and you have absolutely not gone wrong.

Go for the chess. My DS started at age 4/5 and is now 21..... it’s his default chill. He played at school and county (and for his country too when younger). Maybe watch the queens gambit for more inspiration. DS still plays with old school friends all over the country online and is always on a few online tournaments which are global. It’s great for maths/science/ logical thinking/ tactical planning....👍🏼

This might be way off base, but does he show any signs of ADHD?

I only ask as my OH has bouts of interest in new hobbies, then his ADHD takes over (he can't practice it due to executive dysfunction, falls behind or fails to progress, his self esteem plummets, he's even less likely to do it, drops it, feels shit about himself).

He's very bright and capable, but (when he's unmedicated) unless he gets that dopamine hit of being good at it or getting it or doing it right (delete as appropriate for that hobby), it inevitably ends up being really difficult for him to focus on or even start doing. He hates it about himself and it leads to a lot of feelings of unworthiness as he sees others in these hobbies improving and he feels incapable of even doing it.

Might be worth exploring - or it could be something completely different, please ignore if so! ☺️

You mentioned that your DS enjoys history, OP. I wonder whether he would enjoy family and social history? You might wish to consider buying him a subscription to Ancestry or Find My Past and suggest that he researches his family tree. It will, unfortunately, mean using the laptop of course but in the initial stages he can "interview" his grandparents (and other members of the family from that generation) on the phone or on Zoom to gather information. It's a very engaging and absorbing hobby.
He could even consider writing a family history, once he has enough information.

I think he tends to give up on things as soon as they're difficult.

This is your problem. You mentioned that he is bright and does well in school. That's great, but the trouble with academically able children is that they don't necessarily learn how to deal with difficulties, how to cope with failure or how to persist when things don't come naturally.

I know this problem well, as I have struggled with it all of my life. Many things come easily to me, but I have a lifelong fear of failure which I'm working hard to address. If I have to put myself out there without any certainty of success, my natural instinct is to avoid it - even if that means that I will miss out on something that I might really want. It's no way to live, and I wish my parents had done something to tackle this when I was younger.

With my dd, I worked hard with her from an early age to ensure that she learnt how to fail. She is naturally one of those lucky children to whom most things come very easily, so I actively sought out activities and hobbies that would cause her to struggle a bit. We focused all of our feedback on her persistence, resilience and determination, rather than on her performance. And we talked to her about how important it is to have a growth mindset rather than a fixed one. She amazes me now, as she is not afraid of failure at all - she isn't afraid of taking risks and therefore gets much more of what she wants.

It's difficult to address this with an older child, as his self preservation strategies will already be well established, but I think you need to find small ways of pushing him outside of his comfort zone. Start with baby steps and gradually build him up - he might be resistant, so consider whether it would be worth talking to him about the idea and getting him to come up with stuff that would help to build his confidence a bit. Does he see you failing at stuff or doing things that push you outside of your own comfort zone? If not, can you find ways of modeling this for him?

Has he considered drama as a hobby? It sounds like it might suit him.

Look into stuff like having a fixed mindset vs a growth mindset... that talents aren't innate but developed through dedication and focus, and growing through mistakes and failures. Lots of articles/you tube videos/books etc to help him, this just came up first for me in my search

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/click-here-happiness/201904/15-ways-build-growth-mindset

I don't know if your DS is on social media but when I was a teacher the kids told me it massively affected their self esteem and how they felt about themselves. It is a total bragathon - was that kid telling him in class he had read LOTR in French or did he see it online? I think one possibility is online bragging is a thing now and that may be a factor. Disregard if not relevant!

He sounds like a normal 13 year old that is still figuring himself out. At that age I was writing stories and also hating playing the clarinet but persevering anyway now I'm a paid writer. Like a PP says, perhaps this could be a possibility?

If he does pick the guitar up my old tutor said this book was his favourite pick of last year to help with creativity: www.amazon.co.uk/How-Write-Song-Jeff-Tweedy/dp/0571367208/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=how+to+write+one+song+jeff+tweedy&sprefix=how+to+write+one+&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1609631061&sr=8-1

I hope your son feels better soon. 13 is a hard age and covid/school upheaval must be hard too.

Chess is a good call and he can always play online, which is a bonus in a pandemic.

As he likes walking, would he enjoy geocaching? Or as he is strong in English and in need of friends, maybe penpalling would appeal. If he's the creative sort something like Dungeons and Dragons (is that still cool? Might be showing my age there ) could really play to his strengths.

I think this is a case of having to find his niche unfortunately. That can take a while, just keep encouraging him to try new things. January is shit at the best of times, being 13 can be horrendous, plus a global pandemic...no wonder the poor lad is feeling down.

Yes to the writing - this is something I have encouraged him to do but he's reluctant. A few years ago he started writing a political history of Britain from WW2 - obviously pretty ambitious for a 9 year old! He actually wrote a few thousand words but gave up. Not surprisingly as it would be daunting for anyone. I do think he now doesn't want to write as he is embarrassed that he had told family members about this book and feels bad for stopping it. Whoever suggested he's a perfectionist is right and it does seem to hold him back.

I really don't mean this in a dismissive way but he's 13 and we're in the middle of a pandemic so can't do anything. I think he's suffering a hormone/bored/stressed out combo which to be fair can't be fun but probably isn't anything about his very being.

Having said that, can you use this as a way to say that people are not naturally good at things without hard work? Ok we all know people who are but in every single arena there comes a point where natural talent is not enough and practising skills is essential for success. If he can learn that at 13 he's doing better than most of us. Failing at something is actually really good. I know I'm preaching to the converted here though and I'm not sure how to get this message across, but trying as many activities as possible in lockdown is a good idea. Geocaching? Learning a language from scratch? Doing a sponsored, say, basketball dribble to keep him active and raise money for people who really need it at the moment?

I think it’s very common for people who find that some things come easily, to struggle a bit with things that take more work. I feel similar, and I know my son does too. He is very academically able and because he finds it easy, he expects that everything will, and if it doesn’t, he can’t quite see why.
So he has a couple of hobbies that do require time and practice (tennis and violin) and so we can refer back to how much time he puts in, and how that is then reflected in the outcome.
Even when he goes through a period of losing tennis matches, we talk about how progress isn’t linear and that when you’re doing harder things, you will fail at first and that’s ok, because it’s better to lose against a better player than win against an easy one. His tennis coach really reinforces this as well.
I also always say that there is no such thing as natural talent and it’s basically all hard work - I point out that if it was natural talent then I guess Federer never has to train? My son will sometimes mention that a kid at school is great at (say) football, and then I’ll get him to ask how much he does it, and it always turns out that they train a few times a week and are always kicking a ball about at home too.
I really reinforce that narrative that talent only gives you the start, it’s hard work, practice and determination that get you where you want.
In the last lockdown we also did music practice every day (to fill time!) and he (and my other son) dramatically improved, so why don’t you suggest to him that he sets a time of 20-30 mins to practice every day and see where he is in 2 months with concerted practice. You could even film him at the start to see how far he comes. If he has a teacher, ask them to suggest a practice schedule too. Sticking at one thing and putting the effort in should give him good rewards and give you something to refer back to.
I also do think that extended gaming time is such a drainer of enthusiasm to do anything else, because it’s so “easy” compared to things that require real time and effort, like music or sport.

So the guitar that he doesn't play...

He isn't going to play it if he doesn't know what he is doing. He will have picked it up, realised he can't play anything and put it down. This is what DD (who has some similar traits to your DS did). She is 15 now but had a very similar meltdown last year. Said she was a 'nothing person' with no special talent.

So anyway, the guitar....I bought her a book of chords of some of her favourite band songs, and I found a really easy a gorgeously good looking boytutorial on YouTube that was really clear and simple, and told her to see if she could pick up one song in a week. And she did it and was really pleased with herself. The thing about guitar is that once you've learned about four chords, there are tons of tunes you can strum to - it's quick results. Giving someone a guitar on its own is a bit like buying a toy for a puppy or a toddler - they need to be shown how to play with it IYSWIM?

I'm not saying he will love it by any stretch, but maybe worth giving him a mission/purpose with it. I told DD that a guitar was the best instrument to learn because it's easy-ish and you can pick one up anywhere and be the 'cool kid' that can play - you don't have to be amazing. She is quite good now and can play loads of popular songs. There are loads of kids who are far better, but she is 'good enough'.

She has also been skateboarding a lot since March as well - would that be of interest? So she has her two things now. Guitar and skateboarding and I think she feels a bit more clear about what she is about.

Gaming/Chess are good suggestions too. Gaming doesn't have to be mindless - there are loads of really good fantasy/creative/strategy games out there.

Best of luck to your DS. 13 is a hard age.

What about a musical instrument. Me and my dp are learning a few instruments at the moment using apps. Where we;ve found it hard before, now it’s so much easier. There are good apps that cater to children but they’re all good IMO. I’m using tonestro and simply piano. Maybe gaining some proficiency in an instrument would help him feel he’s achieving something as well as give him something to do other than screens although the teaching app is a screen I guess. I also use some books. Might also help him bond with dad?

If he likes chess, look into getting him some chess games so he plays a machine. He can play online for free, and if that works out you can look into a gadget.

DS learned the guitar but wouldn't take lessons and is self taught. He can play well enough to play in a band but he doesnt have the patience or discipline for lessons so he doesnt know what he doesnt know.
I think he's missed out but not learning the art of discipline, but have never been able to persuade him to persevere.

Some suggestions:

(1) Have a look at his book, he might appreciate it: www.amazon.co.uk/You-Are-Awesome-Confidence-Bestseller/dp/1526361159/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=you+are+awesome&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1609631189&sr=8-1

(2) What about something like Geocaching? www.geocaching.com/play

(3) Might he enjoy online museum tours?

(4) My husband at that age got really into baking cakes. Might he enjoy cooking?

(5) Might he like photography? Or animation? Does he know how to code, he may be able to design his own computer games.

Having said all that, I don't think I had a hobby at his age...

@whoamongstus I was about to post saying that I'm exactly like this and it seems to be a part of my ADHD (and my sons!). I'm in my early 20s, I was an academic over achiever as a child and it was really the only thing people complimented me on, so I became focused on being good at reading and writing and from that I definitely have a complex... I hate failing and disappointing myself and others so if I can't grasp something (usually practical things!) straight away I end up getting frustrated and quitting rather than feeling humiliated. My executive dysfunction is horrific. Sometimes I will entirely know how to do something, it can be something I desperately need to do even, I know I need to do it or want to do it yet I can't make myself do it because if I start the task and don't do it right/don't finish I will feel so embarrassed that it consumes me and I sit there until it can't be done or I'm too tired to do it. I started and gave up so many hobbies as a teenager as I just never felt good enough to call anything 'my thing'. It wasn't perfect so I would rather not do it at all.

Oh bless him and you, it's a tough situation all round. There are a couple of things I could suggest:

• Coding using Scratch is a really great, creative hobby that teaches lots of computational thinking
• A creative outlet such as drama classes which are non competitive - you may find some running online atm
• Martial arts such as karate - these are about improving yourself and there's no winning /losing unless you choose to go down the competitive route. Again these may be available online at the moment
• Duke of Edinburgh award starts from Y9, are his school running it?

At 13 I'd think he's old enough to have a conversation (when you're both calm) about what he wants to get out of a hobby and how to go about finding one, and the fact that the key is to enjoy himself rather than feel he's a failure if he isn't magically brilliant at something. Eg my DS2 plays football, he will never be a professional, his team is the worst in the league and lose every game but the point is they enjoy running around and he's made lots of friends through it.

Have a look into fixed and growth mindset.
Sounds like he has a fixed mindset - a belief that his abilities are fixed / innate and reflect who he is.
Read into this together and have a go at helping him to develop a growth mindset:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0mgOOSpLU

m.youtube.com/watch?v=75GFzikmRY0

Yes, second the martial art option as well. Your DS sounds intelligent, disciplined and focussed and this is at the core of. being good at martial arts.

Truthfully OP he sounds bored and isolated. What about something like Dungeons and Dragons? As long as he has a webcam and a headset with a mic he can play online. The dndbeyond.com website has a “Looking For Groups” forum. It would benefit him to have real people to play with and social interaction. If he enjoys writing then he could get involved in writing his own games instead of just being a player.