To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

Your sister is still very young - it doesn’t seem a fair comparator?

I was comparing us age for age, so seems fair to me.

Will you advise your children to have children while they are under 18, and put if university based on your and your sisters experience?

In a word, no. I think succeeding as a teen mum has a lot to do with personality, probably more than level of support. I had very little support, but I am the sort who just gets on with things, I’m not really phased by much. I believe one of my dds would actually be fine as a teen mum, she is very much like me, the other (the more academic of the two) I don’t think Would do so well. So while I wouldn’t actively encourage it, I would be pretty unconcerned if dd2 announced she was pregnant as a teen, she would cope, just roll with it and I’m sure do an amazing job. I would be more concerned about dd1, she has a plan for life and would be devastated. I actually don’t think she would choose to keep it, and I would support her with whatever she wanted.

Also I was 19 and 22 having my dds, I left home at 17 and I didn’t feel too young. I know it doesn’t work out so well for everyone. But from mine and many of my friends experiences, we can do just as good a job of bringing up our kids as older parents and have never needed to be ‘supported’ in the way many people imagine young mums needing support.

I suppose I meant there was an implied criticism of your sister, because you had kids and a house you were better than her, But as you say you have very different life paths.

but do the comparison when you are both thirty - you still won’t have started your qualification and she will be moving up the career ladder.

In any case, we aren’t really arguing because I was imp,y making the point that university In the main offers better employment OutcomeS and earning Potential. You clearly agree.

UpI have been arguing about pregnancy at 17 not being an ideal oth - you were an adult.

So just to make it clear I would support my dds with any path they chose. It’s they’re lives, but I don’t think that being a teen parent is necessarily a worse path, IF it’s a path they are happy with and they are prepared for what they are getting themselves into. Most of my fellow young parent friends and I are now qualified/qualifying in our chosen fields and have given our children a good standard of living.

Despite our different paths dsis and myself are likely to be at the same point in our careers by our mid 40s. Dsis will have been qualified for more years, but I am likely to progress quicker once qualified as I already have many years of experience in my work place (as an unqualified, but trusted and well respected member of staff) where as dsis will be starting from scratch.

You should tell her that😂😂. You are just better than her😂

I suppose I meant there was an implied criticism of your sister, because you had kids and a house you were better than her, But as you say you have very different life paths

No criticism, My sisters great and she picked the path that felt right for her at the time. She now questions herself whether it was the right one. She would have always gone to uni, but I think she wishes she hadn’t had such high flying ambitions and had just done the AHP degree initially.

I think my point is that for some people being a young parent is no bad thing. But for others it would not be the right choice.

@Ideasplease322

You should tell her that😂😂. You are just better than her😂

Off to tell her now! 😂

In all honesty we both have strengths and weaknesses. She is better at academic writing than me, and I’ll get her to proof read my essays, but I have more health care experience so helped her by looking over her personal statement and suggesting changes. Also I’m older so advise her on general life stuff. We actually get on very well. 😁

@TeaEgg

But that's better info in a thread like this, surely. Real people tales. Not statistics from a book.

That is the kind of nonsensical statement I would hope that the first year of a university degree in many subjects would disabuse you of, quite apart from any other value it might have.

Anecdotes on an anonymous internet forum where we could all be inventing tales of teenage mothers we know who ended up heading the Sunday Times Rich List really don't trump huge amounts of peer-reviewed research on adverse health, educational and social outcomes for teenage mothers.

No - but they are more relatable to teens than research they can't see.

Sorry to disappoint but I've got three degrees and I teach , and it hasn't been 'disabused' yet.

Just my opinion. We've all got one.

@Ideasplease322

The fact that there is so little research available on the impact on boys would suggest the impact is marginal. However if you have evidence to the contrary I would honestly be really interested. It would be refreshing to see the trend has changed.

That's not what I meant.

My response was that I think scot free is a non expression.

@TeaEgg

But that's better info in a thread like this, surely. Real people tales. Not statistics from a book.

That is the kind of nonsensical statement I would hope that the first year of a university degree in many subjects would disabuse you of, quite apart from any other value it might have.

Anecdotes on an anonymous internet forum where we could all be inventing tales of teenage mothers we know who ended up heading the Sunday Times Rich List really don't trump huge amounts of peer-reviewed research on adverse health, educational and social outcomes for teenage mothers.

For example. ..

On a thread about DP behaviour for example, do you see more people popping up witvh their own experiences and advice, or with stats?

I love this xx

‘That's not what I meant.

My response was that I think scot free is a non expression.’

I am sorry, I may be a little thick, but I really don’t understand what you mean. You said it was anecdotal? How does that relate to the use of the expression Scot free - and surely that is an

You may be making a fiendishly clever point here, but I am really lost.

@Ideasplease322

‘That's not what I meant.

My response was that I think scot free is a non expression.’

I am sorry, I may be a little thick, but I really don’t understand what you mean. You said it was anecdotal? How does that relate to the use of the expression Scot free - and surely that is an

You may be making a fiendishly clever point here, but I am really lost.

Well, Scot free is an umbrella term. Meaning what? Where do fathers escape responsibility other than anecdotally?

Oh dear god!!! I meant the proportion of girls who have to drop out of education due to becoming pregnant compared to boys (who get the girl pregnant) is much Higher.

Out of interest - what do you teach😳

@Ideasplease322

Oh dear god!!! I meant the proportion of girls who have to drop out of education due to becoming pregnant compared to boys (who get the girl pregnant) is much Higher.

Out of interest - what do you teach😳

That's not scot free though is it. Sorry if I sound pedantic but I have an issue with the rights of men pre birth so im not a fan of the evading responsibility clap trap.

Does that matter?

We just have different opinions. Don't get personal .

I wasn’t basing this on anecdotal information, mainly because I know very few teenage fathers.

Any research I have read states the teenage fathers are often absent, and research on them is limited because they are often not named on the birth certificate and therefore longitudinal studies are difficult.

Therefore my statement that they mainly get of Scot free was casual yes, but I don’t think anecdotal. Nor do I really understand why there is a problem using Scot free as an expression? Perhaps you are an English teacher and have a greater command of the English language than me. I confess I need to brush Up! (Perhaps this is a non expression too).

@Ideasplease322

I wasn’t basing this on anecdotal information, mainly because I know very few teenage fathers.

Any research I have read states the teenage fathers are often absent, and research on them is limited because they are often not named on the birth certificate and therefore longitudinal studies are difficult.

Therefore my statement that they mainly get of Scot free was casual yes, but I don’t think anecdotal. Nor do I really understand why there is a problem using Scot free as an expression? Perhaps you are an English teacher and have a greater command of the English language than me. I confess I need to brush Up! (Perhaps this is a non expression too).

No. I'm not snobby like that.i just have my own views same as you.

You are right, it’s just I felt your attack on me was pedantic and incoherent.

I will leave it now.

@veganmegan

It depends. I think we all have a financial responsibility to ourselves and our children and I would question whether or not a "teen mum" is able to support herself and her child. It's not fair to others to have a child and expect to be able to rely on benefits to provide for both yourself and that child. Benefits are supposed to be there for unexpected situations, they aren't supposed to be a lifestyle choice.

I do think the abuse your sister has been receiving on SM is disgusting though.

It seems a huge coincidence that you know so many young people in this specific situation

I don’t know anyone who went to university who isn’t working. Yes there are variations in success levels, and one or two aren’t in graduate jobs

How old are the people you know?

The ones I know are under 30. Mainly under 25. I know them through Dd and Ds who meet a lot of people through their work which for the most part is a different group of people each day. So lots of different people in their circle of friends. It is the type of thing that there are long breaks between work or a lot of staying away in a group house for a night/week/fortnight etc where everyone talks to each other. Some I know through their parents.
The ones I know who have had successes are those that knew what they wanted to do and were going to Uni because it is what they needed or wanted to do.

This last year has been a complete write off for even those who thought they knew what they wanted to do. (A few had jobs or “apprenticeships” lined up that have been rescinded) This coming year doesn’t look like it is going to be any better.
Even the ones who knew where they were going have had the rug taken from under them and don’t know now what to do apart from the job they were doing before they went to university.
The ones that left in 2019 who were floundering now feel like they have been written off.

One of dps friends has a 26 year old who got made redundant from their first job and has never worked again and is on antidepressants. They seem to have lost the will to live.

From dds POV she thinks not going to university makes her more able to do jobs that someone with a degree wouldn’t dream of doing. During this pandemic she has worked from anything that paid between £70 to £300 per day. She will turn her hand to all sorts.
In the run up to Christmas she took a job doing something really random. It paid £14 per hour and whilst it was hard work and a 12 hour day they were given 3 hours of paid breaks each day.
She said some of the girls weren’t being realistic and were complaining that what they were being paid was paltry and needed more breaks and should have been paid more as they went to university.
A few of them walked out within a few days of starting which left the team short staffed

Dd thought they needed to be realistic and there are plenty of jobs that pay much less than £14 per hour (£168 per day) and during a pandemic when work, whether or not you have a university degree is hard to come by.

“ I know several people who have married at 16/17”

Where do you live, Gretna Green?

Where do you live, Gretna Green?

I actually know quite a few people who got married around that age as well (though I think it's probably a statistical anomaly!). Nowhere near Gretna Green though

Beefcurtains79

“I know several people who have married at 16/17”

Where do you live, Gretna Green

I started living with Dp just after my 17th birthday.
A lot of people I knew married in their teens. It was the 70s

There were only 4 male 16 year olds who got married in England and Wales in 2020. Perhaps you know all of them😊

There were only 4 male 16 year olds who got married in England and Wales in 2020.

That's because in England & Wales you need parental consent. Not in Scotland, tbf.

@Ideasplease322

There were only 4 male 16 year olds who got married in England and Wales in 2020. Perhaps you know all of them😊

Or perhaps pP isn't from, you know, England or wales.