To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

Oliversmummy was comparing her daughter to some fiends. It is ridiculous

I was comparing the non graduate people I know with graduates I know through Dd.

Most of the ones who did get a degree at the insistence of their parents haven’t worked in years.
They seem to come out of university and flounder. They don’t want to go back to square 1 as they feel too old and too overly qualified so end up on benefits
A lot didn’t want to go to university and had a path they wanted to follow but now seem to have lost their way which I think is really sad

It seems a huge coincidence that you know so many young people in this specific situation!

I don’t know anyone who went to university who isn’t working. Yes there are variations in success levels, and one or two aren’t in graduate jobs.

Did all these floundering unemployed graduates go to the same university and do the same course? It sounds like there is something very very wrong here.

On average the unemployment rate for non graduates is double that Of graduates. So this group of young people are really bucking the trend.

Are you sure you aren’t biased in this?

I have an urge to send a careers advisors to this cluster of university graduates who have been unemployed for years and who all deeply resent their parents for forcing them into this situation.

How did you daughter meet this group? Had they all bandied together into some sort of support group? I imagine them sitting around in a community hall and you daughter stumbling in accidentally - thinking it was a baking class, and making friends with this sorry little group.

It would be a great movie - triumph over adversity. Your daughter helping them overcome their poor choices- holding their hands while the have flash backs to ucas forms and students union😂😂😂

Well theres two completely separate things going on here.
Is it ok to be a teen mum?
I would say, no, wait until at least 20 when body and mind are a bit more mature (I know life happens though)
The misogyny is a completely separate issue and is NEVER ok, there is no excuse for it and should never happen.

I don't know if it really counts given I'm a recent uni grad, but there are quite a few people in my year who are now unemployed / not finding anything they're passionate about. This is probably worsened by lockdown, but I don't think it's unheard of for people to get degrees in lieu of parental pressure and then have no idea what to do next.

There's not really any next natural step (other than working).

@veganmegan

I don't know if it really counts given I'm a recent uni grad, but there are quite a few people in my year who are now unemployed / not finding anything they're passionate about. This is probably worsened by lockdown, but I don't think it's unheard of for people to get degrees in lieu of parental pressure and then have no idea what to do next.

There's not really any next natural step (other than working).

Anecdotally, I know far more people my age (nearly 30) with Mickey mouse degrees feeling unfulfilled in and unrelated job. My friends who had children young are living much more successful lives.

Anecdotally, I know far more people my age (nearly 30) with Mickey mouse degrees feeling unfulfilled in and unrelated job. My friends who had children young are living much more successful lives.

I hear that, and I find your use of "Mickey Mouse degrees" an interesting turn of phrase! I think from what I've read + some experience, being a teen mum seems to be a make or break experience, in that it can either damage your potential due to additional responsibility, or make you more determined to find success.

@veganmegan

Anecdotally, I know far more people my age (nearly 30) with Mickey mouse degrees feeling unfulfilled in and unrelated job. My friends who had children young are living much more successful lives.

I hear that, and I find your use of "Mickey Mouse degrees" an interesting turn of phrase! I think from what I've read + some experience, being a teen mum seems to be a make or break experience, in that it can either damage your potential due to additional responsibility, or make you more determined to find success.

I have a Mickey mouse degree ...two in fact

I'd certainly say my pals who had kids young re more mature and have hd better relationship success than us.

I have a Mickey mouse degree ...two in fact grin

I have one that I hoped would be a serious degree, but alas I too am part of the Mickey Mouse degree club it seems

I will be supporting my DSis through getting her degree though, I think I might try and point her towards the OU and see what she thinks of that.

This thread is odd. Now going to university is a negative and having children very young makes you more mature and successful.

I am not in any way saying everyone who goes to university achieves success, but all available statistics show they have better career outcomes on average than those who don’t.

It is just silly so throw out a few examples of some people you know and claim this means going to university is a bad idea.

If Some of the comments on this thread Reflected reality, he government would close all i situates other higher learning and suggest instead of GCSEs our children have a baby. Apparently it leads to greater maturity.

It is just silly so throw out a few examples of some people you know and claim this means going to university is a bad idea.

(To my knowledge) nobody has said that though? There's been anecdotal experience mentioned on all sides of the field.

@Ideasplease322

This thread is odd. Now going to university is a negative and having children very young makes you more mature and successful.

I am not in any way saying everyone who goes to university achieves success, but all available statistics show they have better career outcomes on average than those who don’t.

It is just silly so throw out a few examples of some people you know and claim this means going to university is a bad idea.

If Some of the comments on this thread Reflected reality, he government would close all i situates other higher learning and suggest instead of GCSEs our children have a baby. Apparently it leads to greater maturity.

No it isn't

I never said going to uni is a bad idea. Never once. I loved it , in fact I've gone back for a third go! I also didn't say it makes you more mature.

What are 'better career outcomes'? I know a couple - a handyman and a nurse. He makes more than she does.

My point is, what I am trying to do is provide balance for the posters who would be 'devastated' and 'heartbroken' if their children had babies young.

It appears on this thread it's OK to use anecdotes and personal feelings to make points but only if it's anti teenage mums.

Better career outcomes in terms of chances of finding employment and tryout earning potential when in employment.

All averages of course, and there will be exceptions to those averages.

I haven’t used any anecdotal evidence and I am not ant teenage mums.

I do think it is something that should be avoided, and that girls should be educated about birth control to reduce the likelihood of accidental pregnancy. I think having a Baby at 17 makes life more difficult for girls While he dads largely get off Scott free.

And I think education And/or training opens more doors And provides more options for young people.

I Know university isn’t the right path for everyone, but it doesn’t make it more likely that you will be unemployed.

My much younger dsis 22, has just applied for a masters to train in an AHP profession, as she has realised she will struggle to get a job with her current degree. She is still living between uni residence and our parents house. She has a partner, but he’s just finished uni and is struggling to find work.

At 22 I had 2 kids and owned my own home. I hadn’t been to uni, but we worked hard and my kids have had a nice life. Now in my mid 30s I’m am doing a degree apprenticeship (So still getting paid my usual wage) to become qualified in an AHP profession with very similar earning potential as the profession my sister is training for.

If my sister wants kids she’ll have them mid career (as the child of older parents she doesn’t want to be one herself). My kids are in their teens. At 45 it’s pretty likely we’ll be earning the same.

So which path is better? She may have more freedom in her youth, but she won’t be able to live it up too much if she wants to save for a house deposit. By the time I’m 40, my kids will be adults, so I’ll be able to please myself.

@Ideasplease322

Better career outcomes in terms of chances of finding employment and tryout earning potential when in employment.

All averages of course, and there will be exceptions to those averages.

I haven’t used any anecdotal evidence and I am not ant teenage mums.

I do think it is something that should be avoided, and that girls should be educated about birth control to reduce the likelihood of accidental pregnancy. I think having a Baby at 17 makes life more difficult for girls While he dads largely get off Scott free.

And I think education And/or training opens more doors And provides more options for young people.

I Know university isn’t the right path for everyone, but it doesn’t make it more likely that you will be unemployed.

' And I think education And/or training opens more doors And provides more options for young people.' but I didn't say that?

'I do think it is something that should be avoided, and that girls should be educated about birth control to reduce the likelihood of accidental pregnancy. I think having a Baby at 17 makes life more difficult for girls While he dads largely get off Scott free.' that is anecdotal.

But i do of course think young parents should be supported, and as a society we should do all we can to ensure they have as many options and opportunities as possible.

Because No matter how much we educate kids about birth control accidents will always happen. It shouldn’t be the end of the world.

Oh come on now, there are decades of research of the impact of teenage pregnancy on educational outcomes and school dropout.

Are you serious? Do you think this topic hasn’t been researched? The majority of the i,sect is on the teen mothers.

@Ideasplease322

Oh come on now, there are decades of research of the impact of teenage pregnancy on educational outcomes and school dropout.

Are you serious? Do you think this topic hasn’t been researched? The majority of the i,sect is on the teen mothers.

I'm talking about boys getting off 'scot free'.

People will always cite the person they know who has succeeded. And of course lots of people go on to have happy, successful lives. It’s not he end of the world by any stretch.

But if teenage (and I mean under 18) pregnancy was such a good Thing, why would so many resources be dedicated to reducing it around the world?

@Ideasplease322

People will always cite the person they know who has succeeded. And of course lots of people go on to have happy, successful lives. It’s not he end of the world by any stretch.

But if teenage (and I mean under 18) pregnancy was such a good Thing, why would so many resources be dedicated to reducing it around the world?

But that's better info in a thread like this, surely. Real people tales. Not statistics from a book.

We aren't saying it's a good thing. We are attempting to bring balance which was made uneven by the 'devastated and mortified' brisgade.

@Imapotato

My much younger dsis 22, has just applied for a masters to train in an AHP profession, as she has realised she will struggle to get a job with her current degree. She is still living between uni residence and our parents house. She has a partner, but he’s just finished uni and is struggling to find work.

At 22 I had 2 kids and owned my own home. I hadn’t been to uni, but we worked hard and my kids have had a nice life. Now in my mid 30s I’m am doing a degree apprenticeship (So still getting paid my usual wage) to become qualified in an AHP profession with very similar earning potential as the profession my sister is training for.

If my sister wants kids she’ll have them mid career (as the child of older parents she doesn’t want to be one herself). My kids are in their teens. At 45 it’s pretty likely we’ll be earning the same.

So which path is better? She may have more freedom in her youth, but she won’t be able to live it up too much if she wants to save for a house deposit. By the time I’m 40, my kids will be adults, so I’ll be able to please myself.

Will you advise your children to have children while they are under 18, and put if university based on your and your sisters experience?

Your sister is still very young - it doesn’t seem a fair comparator?

I am not saying everyone should go to university, it’s not right for everyone. I am saying pretending. It leads to unemployment and an inability to own a house is just wrong.

I am also not saying that having kids in your twenties is a bad idea, and I am saying having children when you are under 18 should be avoided If possible.

It happens of course it does and those girls should be supported.

Okay - my statement that boys are in the main not impacted By teenage pregnancy. Not anecdotal, I have read research on this But it was a number of years ago so will need to find it.

But if I remember correctly it was comparing the number of under 18 year olds who drop out of full time education beciase they become parents. I think there were so few males it wasn’t statistically significant.

It may have been American, and is probably a decade or more out of date, but I don’t think the trend will have changed significantly over the years and across the ocean.

But I will see if I can find the article online.

The fact that there is so little research available on the impact on boys would suggest the impact is marginal. However if you have evidence to the contrary I would honestly be really interested. It would be refreshing to see the trend has changed.

I think the cost of buying housing has become more unobtainable for most young people with dc or not

But that's better info in a thread like this, surely. Real people tales. Not statistics from a book.

That is the kind of nonsensical statement I would hope that the first year of a university degree in many subjects would disabuse you of, quite apart from any other value it might have.

Anecdotes on an anonymous internet forum where we could all be inventing tales of teenage mothers we know who ended up heading the Sunday Times Rich List really don't trump huge amounts of peer-reviewed research on adverse health, educational and social outcomes for teenage mothers.