To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

Woah @CherryRoulade 😱

My friends mum died of cervical cancer due to HPV, she had one partner (her husband) not that it should matter but he cheated on her, contracted it and she paid the price. Victim blaming is nauseating.

Wheresmykimchi Victim blaming? No, protecting young people more like. Of course girls should be able to lie in bed naked with a young man and actively arouse them and the boy should instantly know she is not inviting penetrative sex despite them both consuming vast quantities of alcohol. Of course a young woman in minimal clothing should be able to wander off from a nightclub up an alley and flirt with a young man smoking dope on the corner and feel entirely safe.
Sadly, that isn't the world we live in.
I preferred for my young people to be safe and to reduce their risks. That means being mindful as to how their behaviour may place them at risk of harm. I always found that more effective than ranting on social media about victim blaming; its not blaming anyone, it's risk management.

@CherryRoulade

Wheresmykimchi Victim blaming? No, protecting young people more like. Of course girls should be able to lie in bed naked with a young man and actively arouse them and the boy should instantly know she is not inviting penetrative sex despite them both consuming vast quantities of alcohol. Of course a young woman in minimal clothing should be able to wander off from a nightclub up an alley and flirt with a young man smoking dope on the corner and feel entirely safe. Sadly, that isn't the world we live in. I preferred for my young people to be safe and to reduce their risks. That means being mindful as to how their behaviour may place them at risk of harm. I always found that more effective than ranting on social media about victim blaming; its not blaming anyone, it's risk management.

Right. .god your update was even worse .

So do you think we should educate young men not to rape, then and what consent is? Or is it up to us to protect them from those awful naked drunk girls?

None of that is promiscuity, @CherryRoulade. It is drunkenness, poor risk assessment, lots of things (and SO much victim blaming!).

Promiscuity is choosing to have a lot of sex. Not being raped because you were drunk and couldn’t get yourself out of a risky situation. Equating “being drunk” with “being promiscuous” is basically saying any girl who gets drunk, or who is made drunk, is asking for whatever she gets.

If the girls in question were more promiscuous, they wouldn’t be being raped, because they would have been actively seeking out sex with these random men. It is the saying no, the limits on their promiscuity, that is getting them raped, because some men don’t like to be refused.

Cherry - using terms like risk management IS victim blaming. Because if they manage the riks they won't be raped, right?

Yep I would be devastated and mortified if either of my teens had a baby that young. There are so many good reasons why the vast majority of women don’t do this

Never any excuse to be unkind though.

Happened to a friend of my sisters. She didn’t get to university didn’t travel married a man not good enough for her so they got divorced. Bright girl. Her friends are all in far better positions than her now they all in their 40s. She’s done ok but frankly a baby at 17 affected her whole life path and not for the better.

I had DD1 when I was just 16. People were horrid to me and I was disowned by my family. It was a hard slog but my DD is now 27 and has done extremely well for herself. As have I-I get immense satisfaction from how well my life has gone in comparison to those who were cruel to me so many years ago. (Awful I know but I can’t help it-I had one hell of a time of it when I got pregnant)
I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to go through the mill like I did but I wouldn’t ever judge anyone for being a teen mum.

No, not victim blaming but accepting that young people sometimes place themselves at risk and that it is preferable to reduce the risks they have control over. It's not the girl's fault if a boy doesn't realise that a girl lying naked in bed with him and rubbing oil all over him isn't wanting sex - but that message may not have been understood fully by the average young man whose parents haven't bothered to teach them the intricacies of consent. Of course the boy should have been better educated, of course the girl can say 'stop' at any point, but that is in an ideal world; we don't live in an ideal world.

I'd much rather my children grew up accepted the limitations of safe behaviour than I had to pick up the pieces but tell them its not their fault. The harm comes not from limitations but for failing to see that our own behaviours impact on our own outcomes.

More than a third of young women report having unplanned or unprotected sex when drunk. So clearly drinking has some correlation with promiscuity and certainly with unplanned pregnancy. More than one in three young women say they have been sexually assaulted after getting drunk: Alcohol affects your judgment and it is shocking that so many young women are being sexually assaulted after getting drunk. Avoiding the situations that place you at risk is a more certain protection for individuals than vomiting in a city centre alley with your knickers around your ankles.

I do hold people accountable for their own safety, to an extent. If you jump in a disused quarry in January whilst drunk, you risk hypothermia and serious head injury. I think we would all accept that the behaviour led to the harm. Men shouldn't assault and rape; nobody reasonable would disagree with that.

Do I think young people need to be taught that certain behaviours increases the risks to themselves? Absolutely.

It's not the girl's fault if a boy doesn't realise that a girl lying naked in bed with him and rubbing oil all over him isn't wanting sex - but that message may not have been understood fully by the average young man whose parents haven't bothered to teach them the intricacies of consent.

Good lord. Most of the situations where consent is not obviously being given, quite clearly do not involve naked girls ‘rubbing oil all over boys bodies’. FFS.

I was 19 when I had my first child and although I wouldn't want it for my children I would say that I don't regret it. I had 3 children before I was 26 and right now I'm happy I did.

No I wouldn't judge someone for being a teen mum either. I think these days really we should have moved past that. Generally the teen mums I knew (who obviously aren't teens anymore) ended up doing quite well for themselves. I think, with the opportunities these days for online learning there's no reasons why, with the right support in place, teen mums can't be successful. Quite often, those with a little life experience behind them tend to do better in university anyway, probably for that very reason, to get out of the poverty trap. Hence the qualification requirements being slightly lower for many uni courses. Thinking about it, there was quite a few single parents who had their children young on my master's degree course.

@CherryRoulade

No, not victim blaming but accepting that young people sometimes place themselves at risk and that it is preferable to reduce the risks they have control over. It's not the girl's fault if a boy doesn't realise that a girl lying naked in bed with him and rubbing oil all over him isn't wanting sex - but that message may not have been understood fully by the average young man whose parents haven't bothered to teach them the intricacies of consent. Of course the boy should have been better educated, of course the girl can say 'stop' at any point, but that is in an ideal world; we don't live in an ideal world.

I'd much rather my children grew up accepted the limitations of safe behaviour than I had to pick up the pieces but tell them its not their fault. The harm comes not from limitations but for failing to see that our own behaviours impact on our own outcomes.

More than a third of young women report having unplanned or unprotected sex when drunk. So clearly drinking has some correlation with promiscuity and certainly with unplanned pregnancy. More than one in three young women say they have been sexually assaulted after getting drunk: Alcohol affects your judgment and it is shocking that so many young women are being sexually assaulted after getting drunk. Avoiding the situations that place you at risk is a more certain protection for individuals than vomiting in a city centre alley with your knickers around your ankles.

I do hold people accountable for their own safety, to an extent. If you jump in a disused quarry in January whilst drunk, you risk hypothermia and serious head injury. I think we would all accept that the behaviour led to the harm. Men shouldn't assault and rape; nobody reasonable would disagree with that.

Do I think young people need to be taught that certain behaviours increases the risks to themselves? Absolutely.

Your attitude is ignorant , appalling and gets worse with every post .

The majority of sexual assaults do not happen when a woman is vomiting in a city centre with her knickers round her ankles (lovely made up stereotype by the way, I've seen far more men stripping off and spewing than I have women).

I don't think you understand what 'promiscuity. Is if you think it's directly related to drinking.

How many men do you think have sex when drunk planned or othewise?

'not the girl's fault if a boy doesn't realise that a girl lying naked in bed with him and rubbing oil all over him isn't wanting sex' you've used this comment a few times now but I'm not sure exactly what you intend with it other than to try and hammer home that boys are in a confused position.

I honestly don't know how you can write this sort of stuff an then limply say that you would tell women it wasn't their fault.

Cherry - ' I think we should accept that the behaviour led to the harm:

So person drinks , jumps into a quarry, gets hurt is equatable to women drinks (in your made up scenario which goes against statistics) , gets raped.

Wow.

I think you're asking the wrong question. This is not about whether or not it is 'ok' to be a teen mum. It's about how lots of people have been nasty to your sister, which isn't okay or nice regardless of her life choices.

Yes it's more ideal to wait until you are more mature, self-sufficient, and in a stable, loving, supportive relationship to have a child, but life doesn't always work out like that.

The thing that definitely isn't 'ok' is the cruel name calling.

It's tough being a new mum so I hope she has lots of support around her.

If you jump in a disused quarry in January whilst drunk, you risk hypothermia and serious head injury. I think we would all accept that the behaviour led to the harm.

Disused quarries make no active choices to cause harm. They don't think; "There's a drunk woman, I'll plop myself here and try to make her fall in." Rapists do - it's an active choice.

If your logic was correct, sober women (or otherwise less vulnerable women) wouldn't get raped as they had "made themselves accountable for their own safety". Yet, they still do.

@veganmegan

If you jump in a disused quarry in January whilst drunk, you risk hypothermia and serious head injury. I think we would all accept that the behaviour led to the harm.

Disused quarries make no active choices to cause harm. They don't think; "There's a drunk woman, I'll plop myself here and try to make her fall in." Rapists do - it's an active choice.

If your logic was correct, sober women (or otherwise less vulnerable women) wouldn't get raped as they had "made themselves accountable for their own safety". Yet, they still do.

I also tried but I fear we are wasting our time following cherry's latest post.

I hardly dare post this but my dd1 had her first at 15. We did our very best to support her and I mean everything. Sadly she soon lost interest in the baby, because she was a child herself. Not only that she was pregnant again before 17 and then again at 19. We had SW involvement because of her age at the time and they insisted it would be okay and I would have a grandmother role. But I always knew I would have to take the children on because I knew my dd.

Two were placed with me through the courts and believe me it was not what I wanted. There was little choice for us as I love the children and they would likely have gone into care.

I guess I will get criticism for somehow being an awful mum but we were from a hard working background and my kids wanted for nothing. I myself was put into foster care then out for adoption and I wanted to be supportive to help her keep the children. People go on about the financial cost to us, and yes we would be better off but it is far more the emotional cost.

Not a happy story I guess and it has changed our lives being parents twice over. We are getting ready to retire, but still have a younger one who we want to see through their education as we made a promise to him and will keep it. He is such a lovely boy.

I honestly admire teenage mums who can succeed, such a hard task not to be underestimated. Good luck to your sister op.

@ElsieMc

I hardly dare post this but my dd1 had her first at 15. We did our very best to support her and I mean everything. Sadly she soon lost interest in the baby, because she was a child herself. Not only that she was pregnant again before 17 and then again at 19. We had SW involvement because of her age at the time and they insisted it would be okay and I would have a grandmother role. But I always knew I would have to take the children on because I knew my dd.

Two were placed with me through the courts and believe me it was not what I wanted. There was little choice for us as I love the children and they would likely have gone into care.

I guess I will get criticism for somehow being an awful mum but we were from a hard working background and my kids wanted for nothing. I myself was put into foster care then out for adoption and I wanted to be supportive to help her keep the children. People go on about the financial cost to us, and yes we would be better off but it is far more the emotional cost.

Not a happy story I guess and it has changed our lives being parents twice over. We are getting ready to retire, but still have a younger one who we want to see through their education as we made a promise to him and will keep it. He is such a lovely boy.

I honestly admire teenage mums who can succeed, such a hard task not to be underestimated. Good luck to your sister op.

I don't know why you think you'd be seen as an awful mum.

Of course it's ok OP. Go back 30 years and it wasn't far off the norm. Biology hasn't changed since then, just silly opinions and science. A young mother will allow her children to more likely know grandparents, great grandparents and even great great grandparents. I'm afraid that privilege seems to be dying out over the past decade. Sad really.

Haven't rtft, just 1st and last pages, but saw someone somewhere talking about teenagers having 'fresh young eggs'? And women in their 30s 'tired old' ones! Teen pregnancies are relatively high risk actually.

@Girlyracer

Of course it's ok OP. Go back 30 years and it wasn't far off the norm. Biology hasn't changed since then, just silly opinions and science. A young mother will allow her children to more likely know grandparents, great grandparents and even great great grandparents. I'm afraid that privilege seems to be dying out over the past decade. Sad really.

Yes, silly old science. Silly old research that demonstrates over and over again that teenage mothers statistically have lower educational attainment, poorer MH and are more likely to be raising their babies in poverty.

Because knowing your great-granny really compensates for that.

My blood is boiling for you OP! Mostly at the slag comments, it takes two to make a baby, just double standards again!!

@ElsieMc

I hardly dare post this but my dd1 had her first at 15. We did our very best to support her and I mean everything. Sadly she soon lost interest in the baby, because she was a child herself. Not only that she was pregnant again before 17 and then again at 19. We had SW involvement because of her age at the time and they insisted it would be okay and I would have a grandmother role. But I always knew I would have to take the children on because I knew my dd.

Two were placed with me through the courts and believe me it was not what I wanted. There was little choice for us as I love the children and they would likely have gone into care.

I guess I will get criticism for somehow being an awful mum but we were from a hard working background and my kids wanted for nothing. I myself was put into foster care then out for adoption and I wanted to be supportive to help her keep the children. People go on about the financial cost to us, and yes we would be better off but it is far more the emotional cost.

Not a happy story I guess and it has changed our lives being parents twice over. We are getting ready to retire, but still have a younger one who we want to see through their education as we made a promise to him and will keep it. He is such a lovely boy.

I honestly admire teenage mums who can succeed, such a hard task not to be underestimated. Good luck to your sister op.

You sound like a lovely mum ❤️