To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

@ElsieMc, I also think you sound great, but I think it’s salutary to set your self-sacrifice to raise your grandchildren alongside the stories of those more obviously ‘successful’ stories on the thread — I think that there is often a high personal cost to teenage mothers’ families, especially their mothers, which is overlooked.

OP your DSis's "friends" sound horrible! I hope she drops them. No excuse for that kind of abuse.

[quote KosherSalt]@ElsieMc, I also think you sound great, but I think it’s salutary to set your self-sacrifice to raise your grandchildren alongside the stories of those more obviously ‘successful’ stories on the thread — I think that there is often a high personal cost to teenage mothers’ families, especially their mothers, which is overlooked.[/quote]
Yes, agree. It’s a life-altering situation for all involved, and absolutely necessitates the new Mum’s family stepping up to the plate to provide support, since such a young Mum is pretty much inevitably not going to be able to do it alone, or even just with the help of her partner.

The next most involved person (her Mum) is likely to be heavily involved, and while many may be happy to do that, it’s a big commitment from that person, and significantly alters the trajectory of their life.

As the OP herself admits....

There needs to be a ton of support and help for teenagers who are sexually active irrespective of pregnancy, but I also think there needs to be support for teenagers who do end up getting pregnant (and not just moral judgement). It's a hard situation for everyone, but it's most hard for the teen and added stigmatization doesn't help.

I do indeed admit that, TheOneLeggedJockey. I think there needs to be additional familial and societal support (e.g. childcare, finances, support schemes) for teen mums and their babies.

I agree with PP.

Sadly the support isn't there due to the social judgement as seen on this thread.

I know at 17, I would not have coped as I was too immature and my Dd (age 16) would be the same but some do cope fine. Those who are my age and had kids young often seem much more worldly wise than I am, too.

If one of my DD's friends ended up in your sister's position , I would hope she would be kind, supportive and non judgemental.

I had my first at 17, and had four by the time I was 24. I can hand on heart say that I have never had one bit of trouble with any of them now 20,18,15,13. Eldest is at university, second eldest doing an apprenticeship. Both worked as key workers all the way through lockdown. Younger two still at school, both planning on going to university.

While I wish I’d waited and had them when I was a little older I think I done a very good job even as a teen mum.

Please tell her it’s doable, and not to take these people too seriously. For every finger pointing out, there are 3 pointing back.

I was pregnant at 17, but with a lot of help and support from my mum, went on to achieve a teaching degree, PGCE and a master’s and now have a successful career in IT. I own my own home and car. My daughter is now 27, and just had her first, but if she’s got pregnant as a teen, I’d have given her the same offer that I got - help until she was ready to take the role on herself.

I hate the way it falls on girls to be called ‘slags’ while the men walk away scot-free. It’s also entirely likely to be untrue as the more streetwise girls would know about contraception, the less experienced might not and therefore be more likely to be caught pregnant.

@CherryRoulade

No, not victim blaming but accepting that young people sometimes place themselves at risk and that it is preferable to reduce the risks they have control over.

I think you're getting a hard time here.

I agree with points you've made, but it isn't specific to young people in terms of not placing yourself in a risky situation.

I've done it myself and my older self realises that if anything had happened, it was me placing myself in that position...like accepting a lift of 2 male strangers....I was 18/19...Or when I went up to the hotel room with a guy I met the same night. I was 17 then. He was stronger than me...in the RAF...very fit and I couldn't have fought him off if I tried.

I consider myself lucky nothing bad happened...the guy in the hotel wanted sex...I didn't.... he was persistent...but didn't push further when I said no. I was very silly and unaware of the position I put myself in.

The other 2 guys just dropped me home...no issues at all...but they could have kidnapped, me raped me or killed me. Of course they would absolutely have been wrong to do so...but I was naive at that age and was crazy to do this.

There are unsavoury characters around and it makes sense to minimise the risks and be as sensible as possible...I wasn't on those occasions.

I have 2 DDs in University and I'm always telling them to not be out late alone from a safety point of view. Get a cab home safely.. don't walk alone when it's dark.

They think I'm paranoid about crime and I'll admit I am rather cautious, but I watch a lot of true life crime and have friends who are police officers/I worked for the police as well.

I'd much rather my DDs be safe, than have anything happen to them because they didn't assess the risks.

If I walk out of my house at 2am/3am down the dark road, I believe I'm placing myself at unnecessary risk of danger. Nobody should attack me...but why put myself in such a position.

Being sensible and assessing risks...is not the same as victim blaming.

I hate the way it falls on girls to be called ‘slags’ while the men walk away scot-free.

You’re right, that’s wrong. But equally, it also falls on teenage girls’ Mums to pick up the slack and support then until they’re able / mature enough to do it for themselves.

Either way, it’s women left holding the baby. Women left castigated. Women left doing the hard yards.

This is increasingly why women (girls) make alternative choices, that is, not to be a teen Mum.

I'd worry that if my DD started out as a mother dependent on her own mother to co-parent a child she'd always be practically or psychologically dependent on me to raise the child. Even if she did go back to education or get a decent job those early years set the tone and it might be harder to transition to being an independent adult.

It is also a huge sacrifice to the maternal grandparents who may have been looking forward to not having dependent children.
That said I wonder if those grandparents who want overnights with young babies might quite like that sort of set up where they are the co-parent.

The teen mums I know had husbands and partners who they got support from
One of Dds friends has been living with her partner since she was 17 and pregnant with their 1st. They have 3 children now.
I knew a few of my peers who were teenage brides and teenage mums

I think there is a big difference between those who are in committed relationships and those who are still living at home.

The friend of dds is only 21 and is going to go to university this year to get her degree.

Just because she didn’t go at 18 doesn’t mean she is going to miss out on her education. They are even planning to go traveling with the children in 3 years time.
This idea that all teenage mums live at home and are on their own and parents need to take responsibility for the baby as well as their own child is quite wrong.

This idea that all teenage mums live at home and are on their own and parents need to take responsibility for the baby as well as their own child is quite wrong.

Mmm, I don’t think it’s quite wrong, I think it may arguably be just marginally wrong - because let’s be honest, it definitely does apply to a significant cohort of teenage Mums.

Well given that the average age for buying a house is 30 and I believe its similar for a first marriage the number of teenagers in the sort of stable situations that children do best in must be low.

With the gig economy and high property prices the last thing I'd want for my DD is additional hurdles to independence.

*If I walk out of my house at 2am/3am down the dark road, I believe I'm placing myself at unnecessary risk of danger. Nobody should attack me...but why put myself in such a position.

Being sensible and assessing risks...is not the same as victim blaming.*

I do have to agree with your last statement. I think this term "victim blaming" gets trotted out a lot on here. In this case, I think you're right. Assessing risk is a natural part of life and being responsible for doing so in your own life doesn't make you "to blame' necessarily if things go wrong.

If I decided to take a chance and cross a road with my eyes closed, I'm increasing my own risk of being hit by a car. That's poor risk assessment on my own part, and no one else's. Would the driver be entirely at fault? Maybe he or she would be blamed a little for not reacting sooner, who knows. But equally, was that good risk assessment on my part? Absolutely not.

So I do see the point here.

This idea that all teenage mums live at home and are on their own and parents need to take responsibility for the baby as well as their own child is quite wrong

Given that teenager covers 13-19, it's not a massive reach, is it? only the ones aged around 18-19 would be legally allowed to be fully independent. Even the 16/17 year olds are going to need some kind of support, either from social services or their parents- they can't just take out a tenancy.

SnuggyBuggy*

Well given that the average age for buying a house is 30 and I believe its similar for a first marriage the number of teenagers in the sort of stable situations that children do best in must be low

With the gig economy and high property prices the last thing I'd want for my DD is additional hurdles to independence

I think that going to university actually impedes the ability to buy a house before the age of 30.
The fact that it is the average age means that as many people below the age of 30 buy their first property as above it.

My Dd who works in the gig economy was a teenager when she bought her first place (a tiny run down flat in a run down area miles from where we all live)
Being in the gig economy doesn't stop you buying.
From just looking at dds friends and peers it is those that went to university who I would worry about rather than those who didn’t.
I see a difference in maturity levels
Otoh looking at dds large group of friends and work colleagues more people by the age of 25 have bought their first place and seem to have got their life sorted who didn’t go to university.
By 25 the ones who did go to university are still struggling to find a job or are being paid a low salary in the hope that one day things will come good but then are missing out on buying a place that by the time they can, prices will have risen so will be on a similar level to those they could have bought 10 years earlier. IYSWIM.

By the age of 30 one guy dd knows will have not only paid off his current mortgage but also the loan on his business premises.

Even a carpet fitter I know who is 22 has bought his first flat with his younger gf and we are in the SE.

Even the 16/17 year olds are going to need some kind of support, either from social services or their parents- they can't just take out a tenancy

What about their husbands or partners?

I know several people who have married at 16/17

I imagine the numbers of 17 year olds in stable marriages and buying their own homes must be tiny.

@Oliversmumsarmy

Even the 16/17 year olds are going to need some kind of support, either from social services or their parents- they can't just take out a tenancy

What about their husbands or partners?

I know several people who have married at 16/17

Both parties under 18? I would imagine the number of married couples, both under 18, who are financially independent is very, very small. Single figures.

I imagine the numbers of 17 year olds in stable marriages and buying their own homes must be tiny

Probably pretty non existent given you can’t get a mortgage till you are 18.

Agree that some did have older bfs. I.e 18 years old when they were 16/17.

Oliversmumsarmy I am not sure what your argument is?

You are more worried about the future of people who went to university because they are less mature and less likely to be home owners?

This seems to be based on a small group of your child’s friends.

While of course people who go to university enter the world of work later, and arguable enjoy extra carefree years while studying, they also on average earn more than their counterparts who didn’t progress with education (just averages of course, and many examples can be cited where this hasn’t been the case).

However I don’t think you need worry about cohorts of people in their twenties because they have be forced from tertiary education. I am sore it will all work out😂

Surely it depends what you study at university? Eg, law and medicine more likely to have on average higher earnings at 30+ than someone who went straight into work at 16/18 or who studied at uni, for eg fine art, and then got a job in a completely unrelated field (again, averages, sure there are exceptions)

I worked with teen parents for a long time in a medical capacity. I csn assure you that even when they live with parents they don’t require much support other than the odd meal or break like any other new mum. They very much get on with looking after their own baby independently within the family home. Many rent homes with older partners. Very few need social services intervention or similar.
I have also worked with older parents and many need extra support. It is rarely based on age. In my personal experience teen mums have fewer expectations and just get on with things, they are more easy going . Older parents ( professionals especially) put a lot of pressure on themselves to be perfect and can also really struggle with the major change in their life.
The majority of the teen parents I worked with are successful adults to be fair

@HibernatingTill2030

Surely it depends what you study at university? Eg, law and medicine more likely to have on average higher earnings at 30+ than someone who went straight into work at 16/18 or who studied at uni, for eg fine art, and then got a job in a completely unrelated field (again, averages, sure there are exceptions)

Well yes, of Course it’s based on averages. I did say this in my post. University is not the be all and end all, and many people who didn’t go to university have had very successful careers, in the same way that university does no in any way guarantee a high earning job.

Studies have shown creative arts students don’t tend to earn more that those who didn’t go to university, and there are fairly low margins for English, communications and philosophy.

However overall university graduates earn on average more during their careers than non graduates, and the returns are greatest for subjects like economics, medicine and architecture.

My point was I don’t think there is any need to be concerned about graduates maturity levels and home ownership potential in general. Oliversmummy was comparing her daughter to some fiends. It is ridiculous,