To teach her the "correct" name for it?

[notyourmummy]

My in-laws were shocked today to overhear my 3yo saying she was just wiping her vulva after she'd been for a wee. They think it's wrong for her to call it that and she should use a more "child friendly" word (tuppence was grandma's suggestion). Now my husband has said that he actually agrees with them and he doesn't think it sounds right her saying vulva.
Background info, I'm a survivor of childhood abuse and, although it wouldn't have made any difference what I'd called anyone's genitals, I think that's had an impact on me wanting my children to know and use the right words for them.
So, YABU - she should use a more "child friendly" word.
YANBU - it's good for her to use the correct name.

[quote AnaisNun]@melisande99

Fair enough re finding the words unpleasant (though I personally find that a bit unrelatable, to each their own).

But you’ve actually hit the nail on the head I would rather use the common English words, if we have them.

That’s the problem. There is no standard, single “common” word for vulva- look at the range on this thread from tuppence to Minnie to flower to cookie. So we must teach our children the real words to ensure they’re understood if they need to be both now and in future - for healthcare, for safeguarding etc[/quote]
Well, I think we had "cunt" for hundreds of years, but my best guess (would love not hear from anyone in the know, to satisfy my etymological cravings) is that it became considered unmentionable in Victorian times and ended up a swear word.

Look, the Latin terms you mentioned don't horrify me. I just prefer not to talk about my own body in medical terminology in everyday life. It seems just slightly alienating and dis-empowering. But of course I would be quite happy to in the appropriate context. And I agree it's surely good for children to know those terms too. But I'd hope they can know those terms and also just talk about (say) their "private parts" day to day. It's not a hill I'm about to die on, but I don't think we need to have a four year old shouting about her "vulva" (or "his penis", for that matter - another word I wouldn't generally use in a household or bedroom context, simply because it sounds po-faced to me!). I also don't think we need to have "flowers" and "winkies". Just sensible everyday words.

*love to hear

@AnaisNun @TheMobileSiteMadeMeSignup thank you both

I'm confused about the safe guarding issue. Surely you would have an anatomically correct doll and ask them to show you where they had been touched. Why would you rely solely on a young child being able to explain verbally? What if a child had poor speech or a speech impediment or something? There must be a way to get the evidence that doesn't rely on them knowing the correct names and being able to say them clearly?

@Tal45

I'm confused about the safe guarding issue. Surely you would have an anatomically correct doll and ask them to show you where they had been touched. Why would you rely solely on a young child being able to explain verbally? What if a child had poor speech or a speech impediment or something? There must be a way to get the evidence that doesn't rely on them knowing the correct names and being able to say them clearly?

I don't get it either I have to say.

Whilst I prefer the correct words, to be fair if the average infant teacher, social worker, hv, etc, can't work out that Teddy touching a small girl's fairy, flower or minnie is a significant issue then we as a society and the respective training bodies have more to be concerned about than their self declaration of protected characteristics form and 99 page equality and diversity policy. That's what's truly scarey.

It's not about those professionals knowing though is it. And obviously they do. It's if a child discloses to a friend, a neighbor, or another adult who doesn't understand what the child is getting at. It's easy to ignore it if a child says so and so touched my bum, (or some stupid made up name that the family made because they're too embarrassed to use the correct terminology,) because that could be potentially harmless, than if they say they touched my vulva or my penis. The correct words are clear, leave no room for doubt and immediately raise questions. I don't know why people seem to assume that the first people to hear about the abuse are professionals. Often they come later after the alert has been raised. This is why it's important.

I'd have thought that the neighbours of families who referred to Tuppence and Fairy would know what the child meant tbf. I'm not so sure the newly post grad sw's, infant teachers from nice mc backgrounds would though.

@RosesAndHellebores

Whilst I prefer the correct words, to be fair if the average infant teacher, social worker, hv, etc, can't work out that Teddy touching a small girl's fairy, flower or minnie is a significant issue then we as a society and the respective training bodies have more to be concerned about than their self declaration of protected characteristics form and 99 page equality and diversity policy. That's what's truly scarey.

It isn't about the m. It's about the courts. Don't be snide about social workers.

I'm not so sure the newly post grad sw's, infant teachers from nice mc backgrounds would though

Which would indicate you don't know much about the training they do, particularly social workers, whatever their background.

Well no I don't @kaliorphic but my limited dealings with a social worker when dd was unwell wasn't very reassuring I'm afraid and informed my reservations about efficacy.

And you were the one who said it was important that a friend or relative knew what a child was referring to.

However, I shall sit on my hands now lest I get into trouble for referring to what was this family's lived experience.

@RosesAndHellebores

Well no I don't *@kaliorphic* but my limited dealings with a social worker when dd was unwell wasn't very reassuring I'm afraid and informed my reservations about efficacy.

That was one social worker. Let's not start this and derail .

Well no I don't @kaliorphic but my limited dealings with a social worker when dd was unwell wasn't very reassuring I'm afraid and informed my reservations about efficacy

Well without knowing the details I couldn't comment on your limited dealings with a social worker. Obviously there are always going to be disgruntled people when it comes to children's social work. Some may be justified, many are not. It comes with the territory.

Thanks for all the replies, lots of food for thought. MiL apparently mentioned it again on the phone to husband yesterday, he says he thinks we're both right and both wrong, helpful as ever!

Your technically not wrong calling it the correct name but tbh the word "vulva" sends shivers down my spine, it makes me cringe. It shouldn't, but it does. Im more of a vag kind of gal. Thank god I've got a boy

I'm torn with this. I know the right thing is to teach my daughter to say vulva. However I do internally resent there isn't a very commonly used alternative such as Willy. I think if I had a boy I wouldn't even contemplate and I would use Willy. But there doesn't seem to be a commonly used 'acceptable' word - minnie / noonie etc also make me cringe. So far I'm using the word 'privates' but it's not sitting right with me

Now you see @addictedtotheflats being a vag kind of gal makes me cringe a zillion times more.

Vulva - sound it out phonetically and look up the meaning. Vagina - sound it out phonetically and look up the meaning. Virgin - sound it out and look up the meaning. Why would vag and gal be less cringeworthy than the correct Vagina and girl? Or indeed if you are a sexually active woman, is that not better and less reductive than "gal"p?

What exactly is cringeworthy? Would you prefer minge which rhymes with cringe; w'oom instead of woman because it rhymes with womb (sort of). How can you criticise the correct vulva when you truncate the correct terms for a different anatomical part?

Uncle bob touched my flower/ toot toot Millie etc can be miss understood
Uncle bob touched my vulva less so
It's a safeguarding issue
You call your nose a nose no shame so let's remove shame from our genitals

Have you seen the NSPCC website especially the pantosaurous song great starting point

Surely no one lets a small child call it a fanny!! That's terrible.

So much internalised shame about the female body on one thread...
To the pps saying Vulva sounds vulgar, you do get it's not the word that's vulgar don't you? It's a perfectly normal word. It's your own shame about your anatomy you need to work on.

@BilboBercow

So much internalised shame about the female body on one thread... To the pps saying Vulva sounds vulgar, you do get it's not the word that's vulgar don't you? It's a perfectly normal word. It's your own shame about your anatomy you need to work on.

It's not though. I don't like how the word sounds. Not everything has deep rooted problems .

@Hotpinkangel19

Surely no one lets a small child call it a fanny!! That's terrible.

And minnie, tuppence etc isn’t? All the slang words are terrible. I really can’t think of one that isn’t.

@nitsandwormsdodger

Uncle bob touched my flower/ toot toot Millie etc can be miss understood Uncle bob touched my vulva less so It's a safeguarding issue You call your nose a nose no shame so let's remove shame from our genitals

Have you seen the NSPCC website especially the pantosaurous song great starting point

Ever use umbilicus instead of belly button, tummy instead abdomen etc? It’s not always about shame. Some people just grow up using different terminology.

I had never heard of this safeguarding thing but then I had never realised people had so many ambiguous words for it. Isn't there a standard one, like how boys call it a willy. If a boy says "someone touched my willy", it's pretty clear what they mean. In my day the equivalent for girls was fanny and I didn't think there'd be any misunderstanding if a girl talked about her fanny, but maybe I'm just old and nobody calls it that anymore?