Some really selfish people!

[parlourpalm]

This was said by someone on the news:

"We just made the decision to leave based on the fact that my parents said come, and we couldn't bear the thought of no fresh air and a toddler going rogue round a small flat for the foreseeable," she said.

There are loads of us facing this exact situation and are just bloody well dealing with it.

So if we all catch it you are willing to sacrifice 710000 people minimum . And note the age of people in hospitals varies a lot .

Plus while all of us are ill everything will ground to a halt anyway .

Nice

@Grenlei

But what about all the nurses and doctors who have to witness and deal with this ? Don’t you feel for them ?

Unless there is legalisation of assisted suicide then it’s not going to happen.

I'm not quite sure I understand your point. The job of nurses and doctors is to deal with the sick and dying. Having seen a parent die from cancer and one from organ failure neither were pleasant nor peaceful. Death often isn't.

I'm sure that at 80+ your risks of dying from any cause in the next 12 months are going to be significantly greater than the risks of catching Covid. Hence why many elderly people would be happy to roll the dice and spend this Christmas with their support bubble (Tier 4) or Christmas bubble, because next year they might not be here.

When people say the first lock down didn't work what do they mean? Infections plummeted and it worked very well as far as I can tell.

@laudemio lock downs aren’t a viable long term option. If the government closed down all schools, workplaces, shops etc tomorrow cases would plummet again but the virus would just be released when everything eventually re-opened, it’s a vicious cycle. Not to mention the damage lock downs have done (and continue to do) to the economy, businesses going under, job losses, the list goes on.

@laudemio

When people say the first lock down didn't work what do they mean? Infections plummeted and it worked very well as far as I can tell.

No, it didn't. It just kicked the can on down the road.

Infections did drop during the lockdown, that is true, but eventually began to climb again once restrictions were eased.

ForestNymph

It kills less than 1% of those who catch it. I'd rather take my chances and have my freedom than this half existence we currently have.

No, it doesn't. The mortality rate in the UK is 3.4%
coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

[quote Sugarplumfairy65]ForestNymph

It kills less than 1% of those who catch it. I'd rather take my chances and have my freedom than this half existence we currently have.

No, it doesn't. The mortality rate in the UK is 3.4%
coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality[/quote]
It may well be but most of those deaths are in the over 80 age group. The average age of death from covid is higher than the average life span!

@laudemio

When people say the first lock down didn't work what do they mean? Infections plummeted and it worked very well as far as I can tell.

Exactly. It reduced pressures on the NHS meaning people didn’t die for want of an ICU bed/ventilator. The hard of thinking amongst us think that lockdowns are supposed to eradicate the virus.

[quote Sugarplumfairy65]ForestNymph

It kills less than 1% of those who catch it. I'd rather take my chances and have my freedom than this half existence we currently have.

No, it doesn't. The mortality rate in the UK is 3.4%
coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality[/quote]
Thats the case fatality rate (CFR) which is different from the Infection mortality rate (IFR).

CFR works out the fatality rate only from lab confirmed positive tests.

IFR works it out from other data scientists use to extrapolate the real number of cases. For example in March/April you had to be in hospital or a royal to get a test! There were clearly many tens of thousands more cases than the ones confirmed by PCR and therefore recorded in the official figures.

IFR is therefore usually lower than CFR, and a truer reflection of the actual mortality of a disease.

I care more about people losing their homes and businesses than old people dying. Old people are going to die anyway.
If old people are managing their risk profiles properly they’ll be shielding anyway.

The average age of death from covid is higher than the average life span!

Oh well, that makes it all ok then. Not.

I care more about people losing their homes and businesses than old people dying. Old people are going to die anyway.

That's nice dear.

12.39% of the population are disposable, right? used tissues, bung them in the bin.

I hate to break it to you, cuppycakey, but you are also going to die anyway; statistically it's inevitable. (Unless you are expecting to be taken up to heaven on a sunbeam?)

Sorry, not cuppycakey: TikTokFinger

One crowded train station and suddenly the whole of London are selfish bastards apparently. I don't blame the people with a child in a small one bed flat and no outside space. How about you share your living conditions OP?

Much of this sudden jump to a new tier is probably about having a Brexit in name only deal on the cards or a no deal. MPs will now not be called back to tier 4 London now. The deal (if there is one) will be just bunged through parliament now without any scruitiny. People can't protest about it too. Funny that.

I dont get the people who dont care if they get it, for me yup if I catch it odds are i'd be fine and not die.
But what if I pass it to someone personally i'd prefer staying in my House & not killing anyone

Anyhow, looking forward to the frothy Christmas Covocop threads on here on Boxing Day. The curtain twitchery and the "Selfish bastard police officers spent too much time dealing with DV and not enough time arresting my neighbours on Christmas day" posts are going to be very amusing.

I do think compliance will be low in higher tier areas, but I'm not anticipating massive gatherings. I think people will still have small gatherings on Christmas day only and stay at home the rest of the time.

If the elderly relative in question was happy to be visited (and it sounds as though they were) they had clearly accepted the risk as at 2 days ago. The risk in relation to that specific visit hasn't suddenly increased

We were unaware about the new strain nor how highly contagious it was. Simon a sense the risk is greater than we thought.
To be fair we weren't the only ones taken by surprise about this.

Anyhow, looking forward to the frothy Christmas Covocop threads on here on Boxing Day.

Yep, there will be loads. Where do people find the energy? With work, family, including caring daily for shielding and poorly mum, I just can’t muster up energy to care about who is going to whose for Christmas. I make sure my mum never needs to be in contact with anyone and let others be.

@Facelikearustytractor

Anyhow, looking forward to the frothy Christmas Covocop threads on here on Boxing Day. The curtain twitchery and the "Selfish bastard police officers spent too much time dealing with DV and not enough time arresting my neighbours on Christmas day" posts are going to be very amusing.

I do think compliance will be low in higher tier areas, but I'm not anticipating massive gatherings. I think people will still have small gatherings on Christmas day only and stay at home the rest of the time.

Ohh can't wait for the sanctimonious "should i report" protecting the NHS/THE NORTH and saving lives.

All right Sansa Stark!

I respect the decision you've made but I think I would have made a different decision in your shoes. I would drive straight there without stopping if possible (and being very careful if a loo break was necessary) and isolate at his house over the Christmas period, not going out at all, before going straight back to the SE. It is a balancing-act of the risk of Covid against damage to mental health (and consequent damage to physical health). Loneliness is toxic to older peoples' health (which I'm sure I don't need to tell you)

But what if someone was taken ill while we were there and needed hospital care? What if we had an accident on the way up - it's a four and a half hour journey - what if one of us was asymptomatic and didn't know we were carrying the virus and gave it to my elderly father. What if one of his neighbours saw our car there (they all know us) and was mightily pissed off with Dad that we'd put the locals at risk.
It was a joint decision after an open and reasonable discussion - he thought it more sensible that we didn't come. He was stoic about it despite all the plans we'd made and the money spent. We discussed it and agreed all it wasn't right to go. We would be putting too many people at risk.

Lockdowns aren't there to end the virus, we have them to prevent an significant impact on the NHS... Interesting.

No fucks given for the NHS for quite a number of years now. The Tories have been significantly underfunding the NHS for quite a while. I sincerely hope that everyone will be voting to protect the NHS at the next election, not just hanging out at home and curtain twitching to protect the NHS.

Still, at least we can be reasonably sure Boris didn't invent a new strain of the virus just in order to get a reputation as the man who stole Christmas, or if he did he has also managed to hypnotise the rest of Europe into closing the ports and banning flights from the UK because of it.

Good for them. During the first lockdown I was stuck in a small 1 bedroom flat with a 3m x 4m living/kitchen/dining area with a small toddler. No balcony, no garden, no communal area. I can understand their pain. These are draconian measures. Most of the parliament had days to prepare to shoot off to their second homes, they gave taxpayers 6 hours to do this saying you can't leave.