Some really selfish people!

[parlourpalm]

This was said by someone on the news:

"We just made the decision to leave based on the fact that my parents said come, and we couldn't bear the thought of no fresh air and a toddler going rogue round a small flat for the foreseeable," she said.

There are loads of us facing this exact situation and are just bloody well dealing with it.

@dontdisturbmenow I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make sorry? Under normal circumstances those people sitting on the floor would have been sitting in the restaurant eating at a table that had been cleaned and sterilised but because of the ‘rules’ they were instead essentially eating their meal on the floor outside of the restaurant. Can you explain to me how that’s more hygienic?

The whole "ruining childhoods" thing is laughable. There are children fleeing war, whose parents have been killed, living in squalid conditions, being abused, being refused sanctuary in our country, dying in terrifying attempts to get to safe countries, being imprisoned away from their parents and abused

According to this poster, only the most extreme situations deserve any compassion.

@Brieminewine - because they shouldn't have been going until 23rd.

This is like Gilead.

YABU.
The gvt has badly misjudged this and assumed everyone is in happy families with large houses and jobs they can do at home and they being depirived of socialising with anyone outside their home is no problem.
As a PP said , if enough people tell the gvt to do one they might eventually get the message and their Overton Window extend to what real people think as opposed to their tiny circle of cronies.

Yup. Our government has not exactly shone in their behaviour over Covid.

But it could be worse!

To quote someone on another thread, "On Friday ... Donald Trump retweeted messages claiming mask mandates and social lockdowns do not work."

At least Boris hasn't been pretending that there is no virus, and if there is it's of no importance.

@PizzaForOne

YABU

They are leaving in line with the timing and where they have an option that is better for them physically and mentally - it's only rational they take it.

Save your feelings and thoughts for the ones trapped in flats without outside space on their own over festive period.

So, me then.

“ if people took it seriously and abide by the rules, we would have sorted it by now”

Seems unlikely.

We abided by the rules for 4 months and we are where we are I think because we locked down.
I think we would have been better off just getting on with stuff

@Oliversmumsarmy

We abided by the rules for 4 months and we are where we are I think because we locked down. I think we would have been better off just getting on with stuff

How would that have worked?

Sirzy

How would it have worked?

This last lockdown I think was directly responsible for the massive jump in figures

Before lockdown we had a steady trickle of people going out, doing their Christmas shopping. Able to SD in stores and out on the pavement. Our numbers were going down in our area. Not dramatically but slowly and steadily.
Closing everything then concentrated the amount of people out and about. Instead of 7 weeks of relaxed shopping instead of the mad panic of 3 weeks and a couple of days.

We went out to our local supermarket (it wasn’t even on 2nd December and gave up as the traffic jam was 1/2 mile long just for the car park. There was no SD going on and the pavements were jammed

Then we had a massive spike in cases and people are surprised

Science is great but it has to be taken along side human nature.

@Remmy123

This is like Gilead.

Really! I think what has been lost in this railing against rules or behaving foolishly within the rules is personal responsibility, common sense and regard for others. Anyone potentially spreading the new strain by jumping on those trains to destinations around the country clearly does not care about the social, health and economic impact of their actions. Within the rules though...

Children living in tiny overcrowded city flats without space to play have spent much of the past year stuck in those flats due to lockdown/schools shutting/cancelled activities/self-isolating.

If you have a swing-set, a slide and a trampoline in the garden, multiple living spaces and a bedroom per child, it's quite a different experience for your children.

For those saying they should have stopped the trains.. You know there are plenty of legitimate reasons people would be travelling yes? Commuters, day trippers, children moving between split parents. Most people don't drive into Central London.. Congestion charge, lack of parking etc. Trains have to be booked in advance, they only allow a certain number of bookings per carriage and they are really very quiet. Cancelling them would cause thousands of people to be milling about in the station at much closer quarters and THEN finding alternative ways to travel.

Can we stop with the demands on the NHS nonsense? The people infected with covid requiring hospital care are a tiny, tiny minority. We had Nightingale hospitals in the first wave that weren’t used, they’re still there.

We’re sacrificing the economy, mental health and much more for a virus that has a miniscule death rate and for which the average age of fatality is higher than the average life span. History will judge this massive over reaction and the resultant damage very harshly.

It's people being people - you treat them like shit for long enough so they 'rebel' and think of themselves. I'm delighted more and more people are breaking the rules.

Really not fussed What anyone else chooses to do TBH

@VinylDetective

Can we stop with the demands on the NHS nonsense? The people infected with covid requiring hospital care are a tiny, tiny minority. We had Nightingale hospitals in the first wave that weren’t used, they’re still there.

We’re sacrificing the economy, mental health and much more for a virus that has a miniscule death rate and for which the average age of fatality is higher than the average life span. History will judge this massive over reaction and the resultant damage very harshly.

Nightingales aren't being used because there aren't enough staff to run them.

As of 19 Dec, there were 16,183 hospital beds occupied by patients with confirmed Covid in England alone, and 1,239 ventilated ITU beds.

That's about 15% of all hospital beds. And, of course, they are not evenly distributed so, in some areas it's much higher. And we have a lot fewer staff available than normal, due to sickness and quarantining. This is particularly an issue for ITU, which is labour-intensive. We have enough ventilators, but we are running short of staff trained to use them.

@Oliversmumsarmy

Sirzy

How would it have worked?

This last lockdown I think was directly responsible for the massive jump in figures

Before lockdown we had a steady trickle of people going out, doing their Christmas shopping. Able to SD in stores and out on the pavement. Our numbers were going down in our area. Not dramatically but slowly and steadily.
Closing everything then concentrated the amount of people out and about. Instead of 7 weeks of relaxed shopping instead of the mad panic of 3 weeks and a couple of days.

We went out to our local supermarket (it wasn’t even on 2nd December and gave up as the traffic jam was 1/2 mile long just for the car park. There was no SD going on and the pavements were jammed

Then we had a massive spike in cases and people are surprised

Science is great but it has to be taken along side human nature.

Sorry to keep banging on about academic studies but there was a recent Dutch study that pointed to lockdowns increasing infections.

Think the gist of it was that it drives people to socialise in their houses on the sly instead of relatively Covid secure venues with better spacing, ventilation etc - the kind of people who break rules will do it lockdown or not. Lockdowns just drive them indoors, hence increasing household transmission.

I did skim read it - will go back and check out the methodology used etc more thoroughly soon!

My 86 year old Dad has been on his own for months - we've seen him twice since the start of 2020.

My only sister and my mum are both dead so he only has us.

We have been self-isolating so we could see him before Christmas.
He always comes to us but didn't want to risk it this year.

As a compromise we were due to travel from the SE tomorrow to see him in the NW. And travel back in time for Christmas.

We've scrapped the whole thing as we've gone into tier 4.

He'll be completely on his own - he's bought lots of food so we could have a 'mock' Xmas day on the 23rd. Much of it now wasted.

He's been stoic, not a word of complaint.

It was a hard decision - we'd just been on facetime planning our trip and talking about what shopping we needed to bring when the new measures were announced.

I didn't want to be 'that' person responsible for introducing the new strain to the NW. He was in total agreement.

I'm gutted but morally it's the right thing to do.

Good for them. The 'rules' are a joke at this point.

I stuck to the first lockdown rules, as did most people I know. I know the media enjoyed publishing articles about people 'flocking' to beaches and travelling unnecessarily but for what's it's worth I think most people did stick to it. And it didn't work.

I genuinely haven't got a clue what the rules are supposed to be now or even what tier I'm in.

Just another token gesture from the government so they can claim they're being proactive,

I'm sorry and don't mean this unkindly but there is no way on earth I'd leave my 86 year old parent to spend Christmas on their own, irrespective of what tier they or I were in.

@onemorecupofcoffeefortheroad. I respect the decision you've made but I think I would have made a different decision in your shoes. I would drive straight there without stopping if possible (and being very careful if a loo break was necessary) and isolate at his house over the Christmas period, not going out at all, before going straight back to the SE.

It is a balancing-act of the risk of Covid against damage to mental health (and consequent damage to physical health). Loneliness is toxic to older peoples' health (which I'm sure I don't need to tell you).

That said, many will agree with the decision you've made. And the new strain increases the personal risk to your father. So there's really no good outcomes...

I'm sorry.

@Grenlei

I'm sorry and don't mean this unkindly but there is no way on earth I'd leave my 86 year old parent to spend Christmas on their own, irrespective of what tier they or I were in.

FFS. People are doing it to keep elderly relatives save, so keep your passive-aggressive "I don't mean this unkindly" to yourself. Everyone has to make their own choice. Not all of us want to put our vulnerable family members at risk for the sake of one day.

If the elderly relative in question was happy to be visited (and it sounds as though they were) they had clearly accepted the risk as at 2 days ago. The risk in relation to that specific visit hasn't suddenly increased.

My father died many years ago now but he was always a pragmatic, live for today person. I know if he'd lived to his 80s he would have rather risked catching Covid than being alone because there'd be no guarantee he'd be here next Christmas irrespective of Covid. We won't get this wasted year back.