Some really selfish people!

[parlourpalm]

This was said by someone on the news:

"We just made the decision to leave based on the fact that my parents said come, and we couldn't bear the thought of no fresh air and a toddler going rogue round a small flat for the foreseeable," she said.

There are loads of us facing this exact situation and are just bloody well dealing with it.

If that happens it won't be because of COVID. It's because it has always been the case and it will continue being so
Of course it will be, it will just be much worse than it will add even more delays in implementing what would have helped in the first place.

How can people be do blind to not understand this!

People die. Its unfortunate but thats how it is.

What an utterly, utterly shit thing to say. Would you like to say that to my friend who died last week? He was in his 60s and looking forward to at least 20 years of a peaceful retirement.

@Jaxhog

People die. Its unfortunate but thats how it is.

What an utterly, utterly shit thing to say. Would you like to say that to my friend who died last week? He was in his 60s and looking forward to at least 20 years of a peaceful retirement.

I'm sorry that happened. Its unfortunate. But its a fact that it happens. Locking up the entire population isn't a good way to deal with it

Why will more % need hospitalisation? If 15% is the figure then its 15% regardless whether its 100 or 1000. I accept its more actual patients.

ForestNymph because more people are likely to become iller if they can’t, for example, get a neighbour to go to the supermarket for them because the neighbour also has COVID or because their carer, social worker, whoever, can’t facilitate care for them because they have COVID, or additional/underlying conditions affect them more badly because they weren’t able to get the OTC or prescription medication they needed because the local pharmacy was shut because the staff had COVID. I appreciate it may not be huge numbers, but enough to make a difference, more and more so as everything has a knock-on effect. More people would probably be hospitalised at a later stage too which would affect their chances of survival.

I do appreciate that for some people this situation is really really hard, and that there are those who are going to make choices that are against the rules but that it would be very hard for anyone not to make or for any humane person not to understand ... but those people don’t need to justify themselves with cherry-picked stats, unscientific ideas, anecdotes and hyperbole about civil liberties. It doesn’t help vulnerable and suffering people and it pisses everyone else off.

Incidentally, if people want to see what effect SARS-CoV-2 has had in this country in terms of excess deaths, it is at fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html
Figure 2 is plain, and hard to get away from.

I have been ignoring official advice for months - don't wear a mask, it will make things worse - ignored that. Don't take vitamin D - ignored that. Eat out to help out - ignored that. Schools are Covid safe - ignored that (DS2 at internet school).

Taking personal responsibility does not necessarily mean increasing personal risk or increasing transmission.

Official advice got us to where we are now. Of course it is not national - there are lots of first world countries with high infection and death rates locking down because their health system is facing overload and have increased public debt whilst the rich have got richer.

There are well known examples of countries that have used Draconian non pharmacological techniques to eradicate rather than flatten the curve. There are also countries (not first world) with high infection rates that have used prophylactic and early treatment with repurposed cheap drugs like ivermectin and have a relatively low hospitalisation and death rate. We don't hear so much about them because officially there is no treatment.

Nonsensical and inconsistent rules that make no logical or scientific sense lead to people who have followed official advice for months to think 'fuck it'.

@TornadoOfSouls

Why will more % need hospitalisation? If 15% is the figure then its 15% regardless whether its 100 or 1000. I accept its more actual patients.

ForestNymph because more people are likely to become iller if they can’t, for example, get a neighbour to go to the supermarket for them because the neighbour also has COVID or because their carer, social worker, whoever, can’t facilitate care for them because they have COVID, or additional/underlying conditions affect them more badly because they weren’t able to get the OTC or prescription medication they needed because the local pharmacy was shut because the staff had COVID. I appreciate it may not be huge numbers, but enough to make a difference, more and more so as everything has a knock-on effect. More people would probably be hospitalised at a later stage too which would affect their chances of survival.

I do appreciate that for some people this situation is really really hard, and that there are those who are going to make choices that are against the rules but that it would be very hard for anyone not to make or for any humane person not to understand ... but those people don’t need to justify themselves with cherry-picked stats, unscientific ideas, anecdotes and hyperbole about civil liberties. It doesn’t help vulnerable and suffering people and it pisses everyone else off.

Its not hyperbolic. Life has completely changed and so many freedoms we once enjoyed have gone.

I think your first point is sketchy - most people with covid are ill for 2 to 4 weeks. No one is going to starve because they can't get to the shops for a couple of weeks.

maddening
1% of the country is 800,000 people, that is quite a lot of dead people that you are looking to sacrifice on the alter of a family get together

Actually it is nearer 650,000 and the 1%, isn’t that if you get the disease not 1% of everyone

@Oliversmumsarmy

maddening 1% of the country is 800,000 people, that is quite a lot of dead people that you are looking to sacrifice on the alter of a family get together

Actually it is nearer 650,000 and the 1%, isn’t that if you get the disease not 1% of everyone

Yes and also its assuming no - one has any resistance to COVID - lots of work going on about possible cross reactive immunity from other Coronaviruses.

Big body of evidence about T cell immunity.

Quite a bit of evidence that primary age children get COVID at a much more reduced rate and have it much more mildly - plus questioning about the extent they actually spread it. So you can take the number of children under 10 out of the numbers too - which much reduces potential mortality numbers.

Plus the actual IFR (Infection fatality ratio) is between 0.4 - 0.6% rising with age, so its not actually 1% which makes a big difference to calculating numbers.

COVID, much like death, is rather ageist. Big difference in IFR for age ranges, so mortality would surely be affected by how many in which age group actually get it?

My mum is still coming and will have to stay overnight. We can say we're her support bubble (she doesn't have one because she sees people outside normally) but it's slightly bending the rules as she has to stay overnight.

I said her neighbours will probably say something but she made the very good point that they can have their three households on Christmas Day so why should she be unable to purely because we live further away?

The virtue signallers can bog off, it won't save them from the virus. And I agree that some official advice was a nonsense like the go back to work in offices to save Pret. Didn't eat out to help out either other than a couple of pub meals in pub gardens in the summer. And I wore a face covering in shops from March - way before it became policy/law.

Vintagevixen

I believe there is a genetic link. The families who lose people because of Covid seem to lose others the same way but then other families, hardly get ill and brush it off.

Dp (cancer and no spleen) and his mother (aged 95, in a care home with dementia) both caught Covid. Both brushed it off with very mild symptoms

Dd, Ds and myself all went down like a ton of bricks. Ds stayed in bed for a week and was too ill to eat. I could hardly walk and was complete exhausted for several months after the symptoms subdided

@Oliversmumsarmy

Vintagevixen

I believe there is a genetic link. The families who lose people because of Covid seem to lose others the same way but then other families, hardly get ill and brush it off.

Dp (cancer and no spleen) and his mother (aged 95, in a care home with dementia) both caught Covid. Both brushed it off with very mild symptoms

Dd, Ds and myself all went down like a ton of bricks. Ds stayed in bed for a week and was too ill to eat. I could hardly walk and was complete exhausted for several months after the symptoms subdided

Yes. Believe there is some research into this too. Haven't they identified some gene variants with possible links to more severe disease recently? Possibly signposting that not everyone has the same level of risk of serious illness as was assumed at the beginning.

Must go find the research!

I don't get the issue? If they had somewhere else to go then why shouldn't they? Good for them

People die. Its unfortunate but thats how it is
I shall remember that when the thread about people being in debt start in the new year. See how it goes when I post 'people go into poverty. It's unfortunate but that's how it is'.

DonkeyMcFluff
I blame the government. It’s obvious that if they announce restrictions are coming in, people will flee before the deadline. Better to announce restrictions starting from 12pm LAST night so it’s too late for people to leave.

And what about all the people who happened to be visiting/shopping/working/ on Friday? Are they not allowed to travel home to their families outside the zone and just have to sleep on the London streets for 3 weeks? What about any vulnerable relatives or children they may have? Oh I'm sure you can cope sitting in your own shit Nanna/Toddler, Mum will be back in Feb, there's some dry rice in the cupboard you'll be fine??? Never mind the fact that people actually paid for their tickets and the "we don't live in a dictatorship" issue.

Absolutely insane and bizarre comment.

Am off to read the rest now but I couldn't let this one pass.

Vintagevixen, there has been a lot of reseacrh on genetic predisposition, going on since at least March. I can't find the actual research, but this is a reasonably recent report on it

www.theguardian.com/science/2020/nov/01/covids-effect-on-health-blamed-on-tiny-genetic-variations

And then there is this
www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-genes-idUSKBN23P38C
which made me wonder what my blood-type might be.

My husbands grandad passed recently. He had a fall and cut his arm. He was so terrified of leaving the house, he sat at home for days getting confused. When my husband spoke to him, he was slurring his words. Couldn't ignore it anymore, blue lighted to hospital. Cut infected and sepsis took hold and he died. I firmly believe if this pandemic wasn't here he'd be alive. How many more stories do we think exist like this where lockdown and the total fear message being everywhere is killing people?
And if people took it seriously and abide by the rules, we would have sorted it by now and this wouldn't happen. The longer we refuse to accept the reality of it, act selfishly, the longer people will die from Covid indirectly.

The problem is, the rules don’t actually make sense anymore and I think people realise that now. For example, I was in a large shopping complex last week and obviously most of the restaurants were closed and there were only a few open for takeout. We walked past a fast food establishment and there were rows of people sitting on a dirty floor eating their food from their laps. How on earth is sitting on a filthy floor more hygienic than sitting at a table which has been thoroughly cleaned?

More people would obey the rules if they made sense.

@Arthur2shedsJackson

My beloved partner was one of those 'less than 100%' of people who the virus killed. Knowing my fucking luck this year it will get me and one or all of my children as well if all the nay-saying muppets out there continue to think they know best.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

The government have really succeed in turning people on each other with a constant blame game.
I totally understand that there are some people who have a real fear but please stop blaming everyone and his dog with all sorts of nasty vile names and comments as your way of controlling your fear.

One week the newspapers will blame one group, the next week it will be another group and the cycle with just go on. The hate and fear that you are displaying towards anyone and everyone is awful.

they can't bear the thought of being in a flat with a toddler they need to reflect on the choices that got them to this "unlivable" situation. First world tossers

Such a nasty post. Hope you feel better now

We walked past a fast food establishment and there were rows of people sitting on a dirty floor eating their food from their laps
The rules do make sense and people need to use their judgment. Do people sit on dirty floors in normal.circumstsnces? So why would it be ok in COVID time?

Like the people who ran to beaches this summer. It’s the same thing.

@Arthur2shedsJackson and @DownstairsMixUp - there are no words. I'm so sorry about the awful bereavements you have experienced.

When my beloved mother died (far too young and suddenly) I thought nothing could possibly have made my grief any more painful. The 'luxury' of mourning with my loved ones and leaning on one another for support was one I took for granted. I never imagined thinking of mourning a devastating loss as a luxury. I now know I was wrong.

💐🌹🌸🌺🌻