To think this might be the end of the Tory party?

[HermannlovesPauline]

I’m not a Tory voter but do you think being known as he party “that stole Christmas” is going to finish off the conservatives?

So much faffing and changing of direction - how will anyone trust them again?

Lol no that’s the most depressing thing about this country is that despite this whole year and upcoming Brexit, if there was an election tomorrow the Tories would still win

@Seventytwo

The end of Boris, yes. The end of the Tories? No, sadly. Far too many bigots in this country for that!

That's a very bigoted statement. Can you see the irony?

And...the Boris Babes are incoming....incoming.....

No way would Starmer have over-promised then u-turned so frequentl
Starmer the sit-on-the-fence abstainer?
Lucky for him to have the luxury of not being in charge.
I am not a Boris fan and I think his is the worst type of personality to have in this situation but now of our recent leaders have been any use. I think he had always got thru by last minute improv and being aware of that has ‘over-compensated’ by relying on the useless and over-promoted Whitby (I know someone who was at school with Whitby and is incredulous that an unelected intellectually mediocre jobs worth is effectively running the country. And having hooked up with Carrie had also been a massive distraction-I bet decisions would have been saner if Marina had still been on the scene.

Whitty not Whitby!

Nothing will finish the Tories. There are too many wealthy and powerful people who thrive off the Tory's philosophy. So many people frothing about insane conspiracy theories about Bill Gates and Covid, while the utterly blatant corruption and incompetence right before our eyes barely seems to register.

@pinbinpin

I hope so but they are pretty teflon. Having said that, even some life long Tories I know have dropped the party line about how great they are and I'm hearing a lot of "he thinks he still at Eton".

Not sure what anyone else could or would have done differently but at least the ego and personal agenda might not have been so rife - he was still banging on a about world-beating today! Something about we're the best at tracking genome changes in viruses and no-one else could have spotted this new strain - pathetic. He's starting to sound like Trump a few weeks back.

Well Trump and Boris do look like long lost brothers

Due to fixed party elections, the next general election is in 2024. Unless there is a vote of no confidence which could trigger a general election and could see a new prime minister appointed. If Boris Johnson steps down, any PM that comes after Boris will have a huge mess to deal with. Brexit, set up new trade alliances, demands for independence from Scotland once we leave the EU, trying to replace EU subsidies in places like Cornwall, dealing with the socioeconomic crisis after Covid, NHS that’s close to breaking apart due to lack of funding and the increased pressure it has to deal with as our population increases not to mention the current crisis with the coronavirus, educational institutions dealing with exams, results and teaching practices because they weren’t ready for Covid-19, the future generation suffering because of Brexit and Covid-19...it’s not really an enviable position best of luck to anyone else who comes after Boris Johnson. I would have had more respect for Cameron if he stayed and dealt with his mess after the referendum but it is what it is.

That's a very bigoted statement. Can you see the irony?

It isn't bigoted to say there are many bigots in the country, or that many bigoted people vote Tory. It would be bigoted to say all people who vote Tory are bigots, that is not true or fair.

So much faffing and changing of direction - how will anyone trust them again?

Way to go! Just parrot the same old boring tropes off social media.

One thing this virus has highlighted in spades, is how many people out there are willing to act idiotically but find someone else to blame.

The virus wasn't created by the government

The progression of the disease wasn't caused by the government issuing scientifically backed guidance, it was by people determined to do everything they can to ignore the guidance.

The new variant wasn't down to any government action or decision either. The government has responded to the latest evidence, it hasn't "changed direction", the disease has.

When will people wake up and accept reality, rather than constantly look to deflect blame elsewhere?

Starmer the sit-on-the-fence abstainer? Yes this line is doing the rounds amongst Conservative supporters, but abstaining in opposition really isn't any reflection of what someone would do in power.

What is pretty amazing given a decent majority is Johnson can't be sure of winning votes right now. The Conservative Party is very factionalized now. It'll be interesting to watch this evolve post-Brexit.

The new variant wasn't down to any government action or decision either. The government has responded to the latest evidence, it hasn't "changed direction", the disease has.

On Wednesday Johnson attacked Starmer for wanting to cancel Christmas and told the nation it was too late to cancel Christmas. On Saturday Johnson cancelled Christmas for over a third of the population.

The PM constantly over promises and under-delivers.

That is not the virus' fault, that is the PM's personality.

I don't blame politicians for the virus, but I do hold them accountable for their political choices.

The thing is, 'Conservative' is an umbrella term for right of centre. This covers everything from One Nation to ERG to National Front, basically.

The left is split: Labour are just one faction. Tony Blair proved that you can capture some Tories if you move to the centre ground, and this is how to win elections.

Keir needs to seize the narrative and appeal to as many people as possible. He also needs to form an electoral pact with Lib Dems /Greens. I see he is announcing further plans for devolution to try to attract SNP voters.

I think the Tories still speak to the majority of voters (not me, I'd never vote for the shower ). Parties on the left need to drop identity politics and concentrate on vote-winning policies.

I really can't see covid 19 causing the downfall of the tories because it's a worldwide pandemic and not their fault.

Do people really think we would have faired any better with Corbyn as PM? He wouldn't have been able to wave a magic wand and right the NHS and I doubt if he would have thought to order masses of PPE. He would have been given the same scientific advice.

Boris won't be PM by the next GE, but I doubt if he wants to be. He's had some awful decisions to make. All he wants now is the death of a senior royal to make is time as PM truly shit.

I dislike them as much as anyone. I have never voted for them and never will.

Corbyn doesn't lead Labour now. So the relevant question is would Starmer be worse.

I find it hard to believe Michael Fabricant would be worse than Johnson tbh.

Corbyn would be PM if labour had won! Why would they have replaced him?

@ViciousJackdaw

Now wouldn't that be good! The Grinch who stole Christmas. I shall remember them as the party who had to be shamed into feeding hungry children by a footballer. As for Theresa, sometimes I wish she was still in the job. Don't get me wrong, I cannot abide Tories but at least she could run a comb through her hair. Plus, she sometimes wore nice beads.

This made me laugh!

@EscapedfromGN

Corbyn would be PM if labour had won! Why would they have replaced him?

Yes, but we are talking about now. Corbyn lost, Corbyn was replaced. Since then, Johnson has (mis)handled the pandemic, depending on your POV.

Plenty of bigots vote labour as well. Some of the worst offenders in fact. That's why I can't vote for labour anymore.
I don't think this is the end of the Tories. I think it's the end of Boris though. I suspected he was going to be dreadful this time last year, it doesn't make me feel happy to be proved right. I doubt he will be here this time next year. He was only here to get brexit done. It's just that covid got in the way.
Very convenient though, having everyone holed up in their houses waiting for it to be safer out there, just as there's going to be massive problems as Brexit beds in. The roads will be clear for lorry transport, the shops won't need to be full of anything but the basics /food. I can't help thinking Boris is using the situation to his advantage. Bit shit of him to wait for everyone to spend their money on food / train tickets etc when he would have known he was going to do this though.

The handling of the covid crisis is a difficult balance although there are definitely parts that a government less entrenched in ideology could have done better - lockdown earlier at the beginning, sack Cummings after breaking lockdown rules.
What I can't forgive is not extending the Brexit transition period when it was clear we were in the grip of a massive global pandemic. Anyone with the countries best interests at heart would have figured this was not the time to negotiate a huge change in trade relations with your biggest neighbour. But they put self and party interests above what was right for the country, now no deal Brexit is going to screw the lives of millions. I will never vote for them.

I dont think so, they've done the right thing, why would that finish them off.

Firstly, Christmas is NOT cancelled – December 25th hasn't been struck off the calendar, we're just having to do our usual celebrations differently. Secondly, it won't be this that means the Tories are done for, it's what's coming over the hill in the very ugly form of Brexit. The pandemic could be a distant memory within a year, once the Oxford vaccine is rolled out in Jan, if the reports about it being approved by Dec 28/29 are true, but Brexit is going to linger for a lot longer.

But I do agree Boris is toast. His "leadership" is a joke and I expect machinations are happening behind the scenes to get rid of him as soon as this crisis is over.

I think this combined with a no deal could be the end of Johnson and his shitshow cabinet, but not the tories.

I’m surprised anyone is still toting out the “no one else would be doing any better line” considering it would be very easy to do better than this.

Most of the people I know aren’t annoyed Christmas is “cancelled”, they’re annoyed at the constant u-turning and changing minds at the last minute. It was only Wednesday that he assured the public everything was going ahead.

November was too soon to make a decision on Christmas, it was a foolish move. Combined with his insane attitude about fishing being more important than pretty much every other trade in the UK, I hope this nails his coffin firmly shut and we can get another, hopefully more adept, PM in place next year.

Lord knows who though. This current cabinet have proven themselves to be a load of self-serving weasels.

Have a look at Sweden, things are bad there. pp have already mentioned Italy. It's tempting to only look inwards and I'm not a fan of Boris, but a new strain of the virus and people not observing measures has brought us to this.

The bits they have got right are the furlough scheme and payments for self employed. That has been fairly generous and swiftly bought in.

The timings of lockdowns etc will always be subject to debate but it’s worth remembering a sizeable section of the public don’t think they’re worth it, whether for mental health or other reasons.
We are not a police state and we don’t do strong arm government ( not that it’s done Spain,France or Italy any good).

Just as many people have seen real positives this year as those who have suffered.

So the virus takes a concerning turn of which scientists are really worried about - but you are blaming Boris??
Christmas isn’t cancelled. How you celebrate it is just different. But thats because of a virus!