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AIBU?

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Original poster

Can a tier 4 family stay with tier 2 DM?

194 replies

ConfusedatChristmasTier4 · 19/12/2020 21:18

Help please! Is there a lawyer in the house?

We’ve read the government guidance and have ascertained that we can visit my DM, because we’re in her support bubble, but can we stay overnight? It doesn’t seem to be clear.

YABU = no
YANBU = yes

OP posts:
DonaldTrumpsChopper · 19/12/2020 23:22

The guideance is badly written, and contradicts itself in a few places, but legally you can stay overnight. I've just checked it, as DH is seeing his mum (support bubble) tomorrow.

Horizons83 · 19/12/2020 23:24

@Neolara

To be fair, for the life of me I cannot see how people are interpreting that statement as saying you cannot stay overnight with your bubble.

Actually that's not fair, it is badly written. But I will stake my professional reputation as a solicitor that my interpretation is correct.

Think about it... in full lockdown support bubbles can stay overnight at each other's houses, but they can't in Tier 4?

NannyR · 19/12/2020 23:24

On first reading that sentence I thought it was pretty clear - you can't stay with anyone that you don't (live with or are in a support bubble with), meaning if you are in a support bubble, you can stay overnight, which would make sense in that a support bubble is considered one household.
It makes less sense the more times you read it though!

limpolo · 19/12/2020 23:24

People are adding words to make it seemingly acceptable or discounting the previous sentences - You are not allowed to....x,y, z.

Bythehairy post is clear.

elizabethdraper · 19/12/2020 23:24

Oh course you can. Who is going to stop you?

Clymene · 19/12/2020 23:26

@DonaldTrumpsChopper

The guideance is badly written, and contradicts itself in a few places, but legally you can stay overnight. I've just checked it, as DH is seeing his mum (support bubble) tomorrow.
On the basis that your DH is Boris Johnson?
Bythehairywartsonmywitchychin · 19/12/2020 23:27

It is badly written, however after reading the PMs statement support and childcare bubbles are exempt from travel and overnight restrictions. So no doubt the guidance will be updated..

Bythehairywartsonmywitchychin · 19/12/2020 23:32

Bythehairy post is clear

Thank you! (Smug!) 😂 the guidance for the other tiers lists the exemptions, and is much clearer than what’s been written for tier 4.

Haffiana · 19/12/2020 23:34

@limpolo

People are adding words to make it seemingly acceptable or discounting the previous sentences - You are not allowed to....x,y, z.

Bythehairy post is clear.

Well, you could a/ listen to what Boris actually said this afternoon - that 'support bubbles will remain in place' b/ look on something like the BBC or .Gov and find out that way

Or of course c/ carry on misunderstanding because of poor grammar and use of English.

lyralalala · 19/12/2020 23:39

Thinking about it logically - if they didn't allow overnights for support bubbles they'd have to be telling people where overnight care could be found.

There's no distinction between a support bubble for physical health or mental health reasons so banning it would mean they needed to step in and provide the care/support they'd just banned.

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 19/12/2020 23:40

@ViciousJackdaw

From www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with

No can do, sorry.

Eh? That means you can stay with someone you are in a support bubble with.

It means you can’t stay with anyone you don’t live with or are in a bubble with. I.e you can stay with someone you live with or are in a support bubble with.

Bythehairywartsonmywitchychin · 19/12/2020 23:40

@ Haffiana I generally go straight to the governments website to check guidance, rather than the BBC ect.

I expect the guidance to be clear and concise, as it should back up what the PM said..

WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants · 19/12/2020 23:44

@ConfusedatChristmasTier4. Yes you can. It's really actually very clear (despite posters saying the exact opposite). If you're in a support bubble you are considered one household.

Clymene · 19/12/2020 23:46

No you can't stay overnight. You have to read the whole guidance which @Bythehairywartsonmywitchychin has quoted.

santasmincepie · 19/12/2020 23:47

Yes. Legally you can. You are one household

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 19/12/2020 23:54

We are in tier 2 and literally 2 streets away from MIL and she won’t see us...
I think it’s really irresponsible to go from tier 4 to tier 2. You’re really not that much of a support bubble if you only see her every couple of weeks-that’s just playing on words IMO. We truly are a support to MIL and we are still trying to protect her.

TikTokFinger · 19/12/2020 23:55

Do if you want. If you and your mother are ok with it then go for it. On the basis our esteemed leader is making it up as he goes along, I’d ignore this tier 4 bollox.

moomin11 · 19/12/2020 23:55

Yes the guidance says you can. I don't understand where the confusion is!

wombat1a · 19/12/2020 23:59

This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

What I don't get is the "or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with"

To me that makes sense that Tier 4 can not stay with anyone they do not live with - that's sensible. the next bit says "or are in a support bubble with" which is an extension of the first part. So If I can not do the 1st part then I can not do the 2nd part either

On the basis of that then the answer would be no, support bubbles are not exempt, you can not stay overnight.

ClarenceBoddicker · 20/12/2020 00:01

I’m ditching the rules now and sorry to those about to slate me. I’ll be careful as I can. Pre-isolate before travel etc. I hate shopping. Haven’t been to one for months (except the corner shop place). Love pubs but not since Tues. I hope I’m Covid free mid next week as have severely curtailed contacts with anyone, even the minuscule ones sub few minutes .

june2007 · 20/12/2020 00:03

This is a thread about a thread isn,t it? The tier 4 is staying with the tier 2 as part ofg a bubble. Now I personally think since they live in different counties which are not even neighbouring in this case it feals wrong, but legally I think it is ok.

HeddaGarbled · 20/12/2020 00:03

So far only 22% of 380 respondents have understood the guidance correctly, which shows how poorly written it is.

movingonup20 · 20/12/2020 00:05

You can stay with your support bubble but you are not meant to travel out of your tier except for very specific reasons so unless your dm requires care whilst staying there isn't an issue, traveling to tier 2 is. Do you really want to risk taking the virus to your mum anyway?

Flatpackback · 20/12/2020 00:08

I think it's just badly worded. I take it to mean you can't stay overnight with with anyone except with people you normally live with or who are part of a support bubble.

It would be clearer to say you can stay with members of your usual household and support bubble but no one else.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 20/12/2020 00:11

@MrsElijahMikaelson1

We are in tier 2 and literally 2 streets away from MIL and she won’t see us... I think it’s really irresponsible to go from tier 4 to tier 2. You’re really not that much of a support bubble if you only see her every couple of weeks-that’s just playing on words IMO. We truly are a support to MIL and we are still trying to protect her.
In what world is visiting someone every two weeks not much much of a support bubble? I'm in a bubble with my local DP so do see him more often than that, but if I wasn't and was bubbled with a non-local friend or relative would be really happy to have a guaranteed visit from them every two weeks, and would feel very supported.