To report this even though my dd could get in trouble?

[DannyOD]

I live in London. Very high rates of Covid and rising. It is DD’s best friend’s 21st birthday and she is having a party. We are not happy about her attending and have told her so but she is insisting on going. Her cousins were 18 and 21 this year and have managed without celebrating!! I am friends with her best friends Mum and have told her of my worries but she is all breezy about it saying they have a marquee so they can go in the garden (still not allowed). So WIBU to anonymously report the party even though it could get them all in trouble? Or should I just cross my fingers and hope for the best?

@florascotia2 i know of a fair few scottish who are not behind Ns , if you take scotland on their own numbers are not good either.
Also new zealand got under control various reasons , size population density etc , also closed borders.
We have bought all these strict measures in just a couple days before people thought they could travel and yet our borders still remain open !!!

@Standandwait

Well, user, though I would never make that decision for you, especially not ANONYMOUSLY, I would in fact rather that YOU get covid than that YOU live in fear of being reported by your neighbours to the police anonymously. And if you think it through, I believe you too would prefer that.

I have absolutely no idea which comment of mine you’re replying to. I’ve been thinking about Covid a fair deal. I’m a scientist working in a related field so I’ve had to think about it more than a lot of people.

I’d rather that I was responsible for my own actions and behaved in a way that I’ll look back and be proud of, rather than fuelling the fire. I certainly would rather live in a responsible way and run the risk of being reported by neighbours than get covid, and potentially pass it on to my friends, family, and colleagues. But hey, I’m not selfish, so...

A big party isn't acceptable I'm not sure if I'd report it.

time there are all sorts of reasons why rates in parts of Scotland are high - population density in the central belt, reliance on public transport, poverty, age structure etc etc. But in other parts - where populations are fairly closed and NOT mingling - they are very low.
Yes, New Zealand did close borders early, and that helped a lot. I really don't know why anywhere in the UK did not follow that example.
I don't know why borders remain open now, either,

The only reason I got involved with this thread was to say that (I'm sorry) but OPs daughter and her friends are being illegally and imorally irresponsible. It must be a big problem for OP.

Hi @standandwait I routinely report misleading advertisers to Advertising Stds Authority or Trading Standards and don't inform the advertisers of this, it's absolutely fine. I'm glad people under 40 aren't dying much from Covid. However if they have the capacity to transmit it to someone else then their partying still carries risks to those more likely to die or suffer other longer term negative effects.

I think OP should report in this particular case and the police can decide if they want to have a quiet word with the homeowners to nip it in the bud. Very much doubt they'd go in heavy-handed with threats of fines.

Surely giving the friend fair warning actually puts OP in the unpleasant position of (effectively) issuing a sort of threat - "if you don't prevent the party from taking place then I'll report it".

Jo

Blimey. How dare other people get the bus to feed themselves, of all things?! How very selfish of them. Ffs this is a disease that is symptomless in many people and is also relatively harmless for the majority. Get a grip!

@Standandwait

Sorry, JoBrodie, anonymous reporting is not fine. There are, obviously, plenty of circumstances in which anonymity can be necessary -- if you are reporting a neighbour you know is likely to be violent towards you.(Even there, what are you going to do when you are subsequently asked to testify in court?) OP just wants to think through what is the right thing to do. And that should include her asking herself why, if she's so sure, she's not willing to stand up and be counted. And indeed, whether she is actually right in her opposition to this party.

Here, as raspberry pointed out with a different intention, there are no bombs falling. This is not a war, and the government did not suspend habeas corpus, meaning technically the Coronavirus Act may be unconstitutional. (All the convictions attempted in the first national lockdown were ultimately thrown out by the courts, remember?)

More to the point, there is a valid argument that it is unfair and unreasonable.

I refer you to the website of the Office of National Statistics, where you will learn, among other points, that in the full year to Nov 23, exactly 286 people under the age of 40 died with covid in the UK. Also that, in fact, the average age of people dying with covid is higher than average life expectancy. You will have to pry much deeper to establish that the majority of infections in our "out of control" situation are taking place in group living situations: hospitals, care homes, and prisons. (That's one of the reasons Kent is doing badly right now -- prisons...) Arguably there are better ways of protecting those people, to whom we certainly owe protection, than destroying everyone else's lives.

For you may go to the Office of Budget Responsibility, which will inform you that it expects GDP to drop by £239 billion this year, extra government spending to hit £400 billion, and unemployment to double to 2.6 million people -- and guess which generation will be paying the price for those figures their entire working lives.

Putting this in more concrete terms: it is entirely possible that OP's daughter cares more about seeing her friends for Christmas than seeing her 84-year-old granny. OP might want to discuss the options with her before going nuclear.

As a practical aside, if they're 21, chances are they're all university students -- in which case they will all have been tested once or twice very recently before leaving for home.

But, without being unduly dramatic, I'm telling you: as a free citizen, I'm obeying the rules because I choose to, but I would sooner we all got covid than live in a country where people felt "moral" reporting their "friends" anonymously to the police. This is not China or Iran or Syria.

There’s another issue here that we not currently able to quantify. Though we can estimate covid deaths, we cannot currently accurately estimate the covid complications not leading to deaths. How many have permanent organ damage as a result? How many will develop a disability?

Yes, there are clusters in group living situations but these clusters are taken into account when deciding tiers for local areas. I don’t really enjoy the argument that “only the old and sick are dying so it’s ok.” It comes across as callous. A life cut short and lost in the undignified ways facing covid patients is never ok. Those not adhering to restrictions are partially responsible for further restrictions and damage to the economy. You cannot assume that the OPs daughter and fiends are in further education, have been tested or have not contracted covid since their last test.

You’re right, this isn’t China, Iran or Syria, and it’s an affront to even suggest that reporting public health concerns through the appropriate channels could compare to the horrors facing some of those living in any of those countries.

@NoSleepTil

You should mind your own business

How is this not OP’s business? She is talking about her own DD 🙄

@Jamie8671

People who say ‘only x number of young people have died of this virus’ are so stupid it’s beyond words 🤦‍♀️

Yes, THEY might not die themselves, but THEY are causing community transmission amongst elderly and vulnerable people who WILL die because of their selfishness. Honestly your daughter and her friends are all selfish AF.

And it's because of the recklessness of people like them that we are now facing severe restrictions again.

I'd report them, and I'd report any of my neighbours who are having parties.

I'm not sure of the rules in London but if it was a couple of people I would not report it, no. Yes it is rule breaking and shouldn't happen but it is manageable and everyone could keep their distance (I personally would refuse to go and like you are doing I would discourage someone else from going), but 20 people? I would seriously consider reporting it. I would worry that it would be difficult to social distance, that even if they managed to there would be 20 people clambering in and out of the house for the loo/drinks and touching the same surface etc etc .
Several of my family have had covid as they work in healthcare (so couldn't really escape it) and one was very poorly and months on is still suffering the after effects.

What they are doing is wrong and selfish

Sorry, user, that was in answer to your post at 19:44 about how I can only decide that I would rather have covid than have anonymous police reports, but I can't decide for you. Surely by the same token, why should you be able to decide that anonymous police reports are ok for people like me or OP's friend while covid isn't?

And JoBrodie
I’d rather that I was responsible for my own actions and behaved in a way that I’ll look back and be proud of, rather than fuelling the fire. I certainly would rather live in a responsible way

No offence, honestly. I like to think that I'm responsible too, which is why I'm not going to parties. But I don't define going around making anonymous accusations to police as responsible. If OP feels responsible for reporting the party, she owes it to all parties to put her name on the decision. This is not like reporting a company for an advert.
I don't quite understand why you write:
Surely giving the friend fair warning actually puts OP in the unpleasant position of (effectively) issuing a sort of threat - "if you don't prevent the party from taking place then I'll report it".

Isn't the whole point that OP wants this party stopped? If she doesn't want to put herself in an unpleasant situation, why do that to her daughter and her friend? She should, er, woman up and admit that a threat is precisely what she wishes to issue, and she feels it's justified.

I do agree, though, that that would be extreme. Where's OP's husband in all this? Shouldn't the whole family be talking through the ramifications and whether there are less drastic ways of resolving the issue? Is anyone else the OP is with at great risk, and if so why doesn't DD understand? Can DD self-isolate feasibly and get a test six days later? Can she cut her stay at the party short and certainly not stay overnight (the longer the exposure the greater the risk)?

Good luck, OP. We've been struggling with these sorts of problems a lot more in the second half of the year than we did in the first half. Some might think since it's our house we get final say, but our DS is 21 and frankly feels a bit put upon at being forced back home when he'd rather be independent, so he isn't perhaps all that grateful

I really don’t agree and I don’t see the issue with anonymous reporting. In the OPs shoes, I would try and speak to the friend first. If I were a neighbour, I would report anonymously as I probably wouldn’t know them as well. Either way, I wouldn’t threaten with reporting. But any idiot throwing a house party should surely not be that naive to not anticipate that?

1. If she chooses to go she can't come home to you

1. Report - these parties are super spreaders and it's absolutely ridiculous after 9 months of knowing what this has done to people, that your dd's friend and her family are doing this

Yeah, I'm torn too. I do see that everyone I know is having a harder time following all the rules by now than they were in March-April. It's partly "crisis fatigue" but I guess it's also a feeling the rules change so fast and sometimes seem quite illogical. My youngest DS could not understand (while we were still in Tier 3) why he could spend all day at school with his classmates, even attend swimming lessons with the same classmates at the weekend, but not drive to the swimming lessons in a carpool with them.
So a 21-year-old is older, but not really fully adult in some ways, QED.
I'd remind you all one last time: it's not just that we're all older and more self-controlled than a 21-year-old, it's also that the balance of risk vs cost is quite different. We've been to parties. A lot of parties. And travelled, and worked. But I can sort of understand why someone who's just started being able to party, and travel, might panic that it will never come back. We promised my 21-year-old the party of his dreams come next summer, but even I knew that it might have to wait longer, on present experience. After all we're still taking off our shoes and putting our liquids in baggies when we get on planes (if we get on planes).

If you report them then they’ll know it’s you. You’ve already told your DD and DD’s best friend’s mum that you don’t agree with the gathering. You’ll make things difficult for your DD. You can only persuade your DD not to go. The only person I know who had Covid19 caught it whilst in hospital.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

I've got grave concerns over this snitching culture. People are even willing to turn their own kids in now for this Government. I swear if some people crawl any further up BJs arse they'll pop out of his mouth. Can it not be fairly debated that social distancing lock downs ect are not working if they were surely covid would be long gone. What were you doing on your 21st op. Youve had your younger years

It’s actually scary that MPs and the media have divided the nation and normalised this snitching culture. They’ve turned us against each other. Research how Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy were formed, how control was asserted and restrictions and censorship were normalised. It was a gradual process, “for the greater good,” until the general public agreed.

Tbh

I would consider reporting this

What is the point of ongoing lockdowns and tier restrictions when this sort of shit is still going on

Oh ffs

Comparing covid to the nazis

@DannyOD

I think around 20 people. Dd is also staying overnight.

Well if she’s stopped tomorrow by police what will she say?

@DeathinparadiseNo1fan

She could get fined thousands of pounds because of you Just butt out! DISGUSTING!

Actually she'd be getting fined thousands as a consequence of her own actions.

@EmmaWithTheGreatHair

Why should the OP mind her own business when her DD is adamant she’s attending and (I presume) will then be coming home after mixing with others.

This is why the virus is spreading!

I would report!

It's a virus, spreading is kind of what they do...

@Still1nLove

Oh ffs

Comparing covid to the nazis

Exactly. As if it’s the same set of circumstances. This is the argument I often see used by Americans to justify why they don’t want insert reasonable control measure here in their society.

It’s a deadly virus and the whole world has worked together to come up with both a solution, and a set of controls to help us until we implement that solution. We all need to play our part. I take it all those who are against ‘snitching’ would never report any covid breaches, no matter how serious? Even if they directly harmed your family?

You could threaten to report your daughter is she attends.