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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

He is still not divorced

432 replies

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 19:42

Namechanged.

My fiance and I got engaged almost a year ago. We have one daughter, she is two years old. We have been living together for four years and own a house in both our names. He was legally separated when I met him and had been for two years.

Things are pretty hostile with his ex, lots of sniping back and forth all the time. They have three teenage DCs together. She ended the marriage and has a new partner but seems to find any excuse to argue with my fiance. Initially I got on quite well with her but not anymore, she sent me a spiteful message last year saying he didn't want to move on from her, if he did they would be divorced now. I avoid her now.

My problem is he has been promising me for two years now that he is going to sort his divorce out but there is always a reason it doesn't get done.

AIBU to call off the engagement?

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 16/12/2020 21:08

Why do people keep saying I can't be engaged? An engagement is just a promise to get married. It's not a legal arrangement.

Of course you can be engaged, although on reflection, agreeing to marry a man who is already married wasn't the most prudent decision.

Original poster
Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 21:09

He pays maintenance already and will continue to do so when (if) they divorce. She is looking for an increase. They divided up their assets, his pensions etc. She will get half his pension from when they were married regardless. She now wants a significantly larger portion of their assets and a lump sum and has said she will agree to the divorce on those terms.

As they are not in agreement the court will not automatically grant the divorce which is what he had hoped for. So as I said it's complicated but that doesn't justify not doing it.

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 16/12/2020 21:11

@Heisstillnotdivorced

Why do people keep saying I can't be engaged? An engagement is just a promise to get married. It's not a legal arrangement.
Because legally, he is not free to marry that's why.

It's not quite bigamy, of course not, but just think about it- he's promised to marry you but he's still married to another woman.

He ought to have said 'Let's get engaged once my divorce is through'.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/12/2020 21:12

When she contested the terms, it got more complicated

Do you actually know she's contested them - and I do mean know as opposed to this being yet another of his excuses?
Even if it's true, though, it doesn't change much; he's legally still married and he's clearly not going to be free any time soon

And yes, I'm sure he is happy on a day to day basis while it's all going his way. As for being a "good parent", it could be worthwhile seeing what his attitude is if you leave and things aren't suiting him quite so much any more

JinglingHellsBells · 16/12/2020 21:13

As they are not in agreement the court will not automatically grant the divorce which is what he had hoped for. So as I said it's complicated but that doesn't justify not doing it.

Right, so they go to mediation and agree something that way.
He needs to take control of it.

Regularsizedrudy · 16/12/2020 21:13

Oh lord. If he’s still married he’s not your fiancé! He’s your boyfriend, and a pretty crap one at that.

Colouringaddict · 16/12/2020 21:14

Of course you can be engaged to a man you live with, even if he has not finalised his divorce. An engagement is a promise, not a legally binding contract!
Do you think OP that he hasn’t finalised it because it will affect his older DC’s?
I was engaged to my now DH before his divorce was final, his ex wife tried all manner of ways to delay it all, including stopping the proceedings and claimed they were working on a reconciliation, between the Nisi and the absolute. He waited the six weeks and a day and finished it himself. We were married three months later.
Be honest with him, like really brutally honest ask him to be honest too. Hopefully you will reach a conclusion you both can be happy with.

nancybotwinbloom · 16/12/2020 21:14

Well he will still need to hash it out with her in court if he wants to marry you.

If he doesn't do this then you have to either accept this or move on from him.

If he is totally committed to marrying you then he has to hash it out in order to marry you. That's the only way. Whether it's now, next week, next year, whatever. To marry you it has to get sorted out.

You can set a deadline and tell him.

SpilltheTea · 16/12/2020 21:15

Putting deposits down on a wedding when he's not even divorced makes no sense at all. He needs to get on with it and stop burying his head in the sand. He clearly doesn't give a shit if he's married or who he's married to.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/12/2020 21:18

There's also the point that, having had to share his assets once already, he may not be keen to risk doing it again

Ignore me if this is different in Ireland, but over here he'd be obliged to pay towards the DCs but not for you ... perhaps this is influencing his thinking?

billy1966 · 16/12/2020 21:19

As a gesture of good will, he should sign the house over to you, solely.

His divorce sounds messy.

His arsing around while engaged to you, about his divorce, is just awful.

Please don't have another child with him, under such humiliating circumstances.

You deserve better than this.Flowers

yelyah22 · 16/12/2020 21:21

Why is everyone saying you can't be engaged if he's still married? Of course you can, being engaged is just saying 'we'll get married in future' - not a legal state! It has no legal bearing at all so there's nothing preventing him being engaged to someone else before his divorce is sorted.

OP have (another?) big talk with him and tell him how you feel, and how important it is that it's sorted ASAP. It doesn't sound like - from what you've said - it's about how he feels about you, more that he's just putting off something that will be a hassle and unpleasant. You're not wrong to feel how you do, at all, but I'd save making any rash decisions if he's otherwise a good partner and dad until you've said very clearly "I don't want this to drag on, we don't know how long it's going to take in court and I want it done and dusted. It's making me feel differently about our relationship because it feels like moving things forward so we can progress our relationship isn't a priority. I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm not a priority, so I'm asking you to sort this out. If you've not done X by Y date, we need to have a chat about where our relationship is going." And mean it, if that's what you're doing - setting conditions like that can't be a threat. If you won't actually leave, don't set the condition - that's just manipulation. But I'd give him the riot act before anything else - good luck!

Original poster
Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 21:25

@JinglingHellsBells

As they are not in agreement the court will not automatically grant the divorce which is what he had hoped for. So as I said it's complicated but that doesn't justify not doing it.

Right, so they go to mediation and agree something that way.
He needs to take control of it.

This is the sort of thing I say to him regularly and I'm so irritated by it all now.

I know on some level he thinks its fine because there is loads of time to sort it before the wedding.

I find it insanely offensive that he doesn't think me being really upset isn't a reason to prioritise doing it urgently.

I told him last week that if he didn't give me an update by this Friday that it's in hand (engaged a good family lawyer or whatever) that I am done. At the time I wondered would I calm down in a day or two but I feel exactly the same about it now. I know he took me seriously and has been busy this week contacting solicitors.

The problem is I'm so angry about the whole thing - I've had to resort to threats and ultimatums to get him to do the decent and correct thing - that I don't know if I will feel any different when he actually gets around to it.

OP posts:
PatsyJStone · 16/12/2020 21:32

Well an ‘engagement’ was discussed in a court case I have knowledge of, and the judge deemed it not to be a legally recognised engagement. This made a difference to the claim of the fiancée re. her legal position with her fiancé. The judge ruled there was no engagement as the fiancée was married at the time of the proposal.

Yes it was England but the principle may be the same.

momtoboys · 16/12/2020 21:33

Oh, dear. It sure doesn't seem like he wants to marry again does it? If you are happy with the situation the way it is, then no worries. If you want to be married, I'm afraid you have a lot of thinking to do.

KatySun · 16/12/2020 21:39

Sorry, I am ignorant of Irish law as I am in Scotland. In Scotland, if you have a separation agreement, this is legally binding. You cannot go back to court to alter the financial aspects, that is done and dusted. You can however go back to court to alter the child arrangements, as these have to be agreed prior to divorce and of course can be varied any time before the child is 16. If you can vary the financial settlement in Ireland, what is even the point of getting an agreement drawn up in the first place? Has he actually taken legal advice on this? It seems crazy.

I am not divorced although I have been separated for several years, because xH refused to agree the child arrangements and I have limited funds to keep trying. We have not even got a separation agreement on that point. I sort of understand this as children’s needs change, but surely once you agree finances, this is done. You cannot sell a house, say, and then get it back because the other party changes their mind after the agreement. Why would a pension settlement be any different?

justanotherremainer · 16/12/2020 21:40

Jinglinghellsbells

Do you mean (1) Scotland, (2) England and Wales or (3) Northern Ireland?

There is no “UK” legal jurisdiction.

CherryDocsInYrBalls · 16/12/2020 21:40

He sounds very entitled, like many men women post about on here. Men look around for another relationship when they are still financially/emotionally/legally/sexually still involved with their ex because they think they're entitled to a new relationship when the previous one needs ending and healthy co-parenting needs to start. Women get into relationships with good intentions paved with the lies and misleading statements of these entitled men. I can see why you're annoyed, but it is a red flag if a man is married/recently separated/the ex is a bitch

nancybotwinbloom · 16/12/2020 21:41

I get that op. He shouldn't need nagging to want of a better word to sort his shit out.

I'd be fucked off also.

Sometimes when you get to that point it's done. Because of that. Because he's been so lax.

KatySun · 16/12/2020 21:42

I am presuming when you say they have a legal separation, you mean a minute of agreement drawn up by solicitors, witnessed and lodged with the court?

daisychain01 · 16/12/2020 21:42

@2bazookas

Since he's not divorced he can't marry you, so you might as well call off the meaningless "engagement ".
That's a really mean thing to say.

Why shouldn't they get engaged. It's an intention to marry. Their situation is complex and the OP knows that now, but it doesn't mean that gesture is "meaningless".

BlueThistles · 16/12/2020 21:44

This is the second Thread on a similar theme in recent days right? or have you posted about this before OP Flowers

HotGlueGun · 16/12/2020 21:45

I can totally understand your frustration. I have an OH a bit like this. Struggle to galvanise him into action about some really quite important stuff and have to practically have a breakdown before he will sort the thing he needs to do. Just fucking do it already!

I think you need to follow through and demonstrate that you absolutely mean business. If he doesn't stop being avoidant and finalise the divorce then you will finalise your relationship. Good luck, op.

daisychain01 · 16/12/2020 21:47

OP he very likely does want to marry you.

It's just the journey to get there could be an arduous and painful one for him.

I don't think ultimatums will work in this instance. He knows he can't keep putting it off any more.

Piglet89 · 16/12/2020 21:47

@KatySun

www.lawonline.ie/law-guides/personal/how-to-get-a-separation

Could be either separation agreement or judicial separation, apparently. From what the OP's said, sounds as though it was contentious and might be the latter.