Page 4 | He is still not divorced

Heisstillnotdivorced · 2020-12-16T19:42:15+00:00

Namechanged. My fiance and I got engaged almost a year ago. We have one daughter, she is two years old. We have been living together for four years and own a house in both our names. He was legally separated when I met him and had been for two years. Things are pretty hostile with his ex, lots of sniping back and forth all the time. They have three teenage DCs together. She ended the marriage and has a new partner but seems to find any excuse to argue with my fiance. Initially I got on quite well with her but not anymore, she sent me a spiteful message last year saying he didn't want to move on from her, if he did they would be divorced now. I avoid her now. My problem is he has been promising me for two years now that he is going to sort his divorce out but there is always a reason it doesn't get done. AIBU to call off the engagement?

FindHungrySamurai · 16/12/2020 20:34

@justanotherremainer

This thread is a great example of people assuming that the legal stuff OP talks about is English.

Ireland is a separate legal jurisdiction and the marriage / separation / divorce laws will be different to what most posters know ( assuming most posters are based in England).

I quite agree. I know a whole bunch about what the situation would be in England but SFA about the Irish rules. Not normally a huge fan of people being engaged to someone else’s spouse (looking at you Carrie Symonds) but it is a bit different in Ireland because four years is a hell of a long time.

Is your relationship otherwise OK OP? If ex changed her mind and said she sign the agreement and DP said let’s book the registry office (or whatever they call it in Ireland) for tomorrow would you shout Yippee! and sprint out to buy a frock with a song in your heart?

If so I’d tell him what his ex said, tell him that it really bothers me, and take it from there.

im5050 · 16/12/2020 20:37

If he dies and he’s still married you could be fighting out the right to live in your house as she would be his next of kin legally as his wife not you
Any pensions he has could probably go to her
And maybe she is thinking that the longer they are married the more she can potentially get

SingleWontMingle · 16/12/2020 20:40

it's far away (2022)

Sounds like irritating ex wife (with partner who must also be bemused) will know this and may be loving causing all the drama.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 20:40

@MargosKaftan

Op - don't do the set a wedding date thing- if he does try to sort the divorce, if his ex knows he's got a wedding date you know she'll stall so it is missed.

Just have a proper conversation, does he want to be married to you? If so, he has to divorce his ex. He can leave it a month, a year, 4 years, but whenever he does it, it will be painful. If he leaves it too long, you'll lose all respect for him.

Make him tell you why he's not doing it is it laziness? Is it fear of how hideous it will be? Is it he still loves her? Is it a convenient excuse to avoid marrying you?

We can't tell you. You know there's no "nice" reason.

Ask him. Don't let him dodge the answer by saying he'll sort it "soon".

Thank you.

I have had the conversation with him and you are spot on with a lot of it.

He has said he definitely wants to be married to me and I believe him. Nobody forced him to propose. He is very interested in the wedding planning.

I see no indication he still loves her or is interested in her.

He does dread how hideous it will be. He found the separation through the courts traumatic, it went on for years and is still going on now I suppose. Also, while he's not lazy be often surrounds himself with chaos.

I suspect he wishes this would just get sorted out for him somehow but I don't see why I should jolly him along. It's been two years since he told me he had printed off the forms and it still isn't done!

I'm not losing respect for him, I'm basically already there. It's just pathetic.

OP posts:

C0NNIE · 16/12/2020 20:41

OP has your partner had his separation agreement made a rule of court? Does he have a judicial separation ? If so then all the terms can be legally enforced.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 20:42

@im5050

If he dies and he’s still married you could be fighting out the right to live in your house as she would be his next of kin legally as his wife not you Any pensions he has could probably go to her And maybe she is thinking that the longer they are married the more she can potentially get

Oh for god's sake

OP posts:

2020iscancelled · 16/12/2020 20:44

It’s so not true that she would get their house.

OP has a financial and legal agreement (a mortgage and sale agreement I assume) to prove her ownership.

Not EVERY SINGLE ASSET in someone’s life is automatically split 50:50 when you divorce. He purchased the house after they had separated and I assume has taken no financial assistance from the ex, therefore any solicitor with half a brain could get this discounted from the divorce settlement.
That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be considered in relation to their individual financial

florascotia2 · 16/12/2020 20:44

OP for people not familiar with Irish laws, it might be useful to specify which of the following applies - is it a separation agreement or a judicial separation? They are considerably different:
www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/separation_and_divorce/legal_options_following_marital_breakdown.html

2020iscancelled · 16/12/2020 20:48

And if he has a will (sorry if I’ve missed this) then unless the ex is absolutely psychopathic I wouldn’t expect it to be challenged..... and even if it was it’s apparently really difficult to over turn a will when it has been adequately and properly made...

OP just tell him, this is making me seriously unhappy, insecure in terms of finances, worried about DC and is giving me general anxiety.... I want to get married and you NEED to proceed with the divorce right away because if you don’t, this is going to be a very serious issue between us

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/12/2020 20:48

I'm not losing respect for him, I'm basically already there

So in all honesty what's the point in planning a wedding - enjoyably or not - with a man who's married, shows every sign of remaining so by dragging it out and who you no longer respect?

It might be true that he's "dreading what it'll be like", but it could equally be that he's just not that bothered and knows he's got the perfect get-out. Either way your suggestion of "just leaving them to it" sounds very wise to me

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 20:48

@SingleWontMingle

it's far away (2022)

Sounds like irritating ex wife (with partner who must also be bemused) will know this and may be loving causing all the drama.

I don't know what is motivating her actually (nor do I care). I do know her partner isn't prepared to advance things with her to the next stage (moving in / engagement) due to complications with his family so she has no pressing need to get divorced. She is a regular church-goer and very concerned with seeming respectable so that might be a factor.

But what she wants isn't really my concern. He could still prioritise getting it sorted asap.

OP posts:

MargosKaftan · 16/12/2020 20:49

It sounds like you need to shock him into realising this won't go away on its own and doing nothing will be worse for him.

I'd start by handing back the engagement ring. Tell him to ask you again when he's free to marry you. You won't wear a lie. If any of your family of his notices you not wearing the ring, tell them you aren't going to wear it until he's able to marry you. Be open about it with others in the family and friends, he isn't divorced so you aren't engaged.

justanotherremainer · 16/12/2020 20:51

2020iscancelled

Respectfully, your post is really irresponsible.

Unless, of course, you are a solicitor practising in Ireland.

Are you?

billy1966 · 16/12/2020 20:53

OP,

Obviously this is hugely upsetting for you.

It is just so disrespectful of you.

All this procrastination makes it more stressful for you.

He may well care about you, but this whole situation is just so tacky and desperate.

It puts you in suchba ridiculous situation...engaged to a man that is still well and truly married.

You and the child you have deserve more.

It must be really humiliating to be engaged with a child to a man who is dragging his heels on the divorce.

Hard to imagine.

You deserve so much better than this.
I can well imagine that respect has been lost for him and for yourself.

Assert yourself.

Is he really a prize?
He doesn't sound like it.

We teach people how to treat us. Remember that.

Jobsharenightmare · 16/12/2020 20:53

Hi OP if the same rules apply as in England the financial (consent) order is the tricky bit that can cost ££££ to sort out in court if parties cannot agree and most solicitors say not to get the absolute if this order hasn't been signed and submit to court.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 20:54

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I'm not losing respect for him, I'm basically already there

So in all honesty what's the point in planning a wedding - enjoyably or not - with a man who's married, shows every sign of remaining so by dragging it out and who you no longer respect?

It might be true that he's "dreading what it'll be like", but it could equally be that he's just not that bothered and knows he's got the perfect get-out. Either way your suggestion of "just leaving them to it" sounds very wise to me

Yes it is looking increasingly more attractive to me too.

We are happy though in day-to-day stuff and he is a great parent.

OP posts:

SleepyGirly · 16/12/2020 20:55

I don’t understand why you had a child, bought a house and put down deposits for a wedding with a man who is already married. If your fiancé can’t be bothered to hire a good solicitor and go through divorce proceedings then it doesn’t seem like he’s bothered about you. Sorry but you deserve so much better. Hand back your engagement ring and tell him he’s not your fiancé or boyfriend until he’s divorced.

Nowaynothappening · 16/12/2020 20:58

As others have pointed out, if he died tomorrow his wife would own half of your home.

I know the horse has already bolted but you really shouldn’t have procreated with a married man. No idea what he gains from not divorcing her, weird he’s dragged his feet for so many years... Demand he divorces her ASAP or I’d personally walk if I were you.

JinglingHellsBells · 16/12/2020 20:59

Am sure someone has pointed it out but you can't be engaged to someone who is already married.

Not really. They have to be free to marry and he is not.

I know it's all wonderful with hindsight but I'd not have had a child with someone who already had 3 kids and wasn't divorced, no matter what they promised.

Sorry but you have been a bit silly to take him at his word.

My understanding of a legal separation is that it's a halfway house to divorce when one party objects to the divorce. That means in the period of 5 years (after which they cannot stop a divorce going ahead) one spouse agrees to pay maintenance as if they were divorced, if the other cannot support themselves before there is a final (divorce) settlement. It usually means the wife receives regular payments, decided by law.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 21:02

@SleepyGirly

I don’t understand why you had a child, bought a house and put down deposits for a wedding with a man who is already married. If your fiancé can’t be bothered to hire a good solicitor and go through divorce proceedings then it doesn’t seem like he’s bothered about you. Sorry but you deserve so much better. Hand back your engagement ring and tell him he’s not your fiancé or boyfriend until he’s divorced.

We had a child because my clock was loudly ticking and I have health complications. We bought a house because I thought it would be nice to have somewhere for us to live. We put down wedding deposits because he told me the divorce was just a matter of filing paperwork and I believed him. He believed this too I think.

But when she contested the terms, it got more complicated requiring him to go back into court to battle it out yet again (they have been there many many many times already), he is massively avoiding and I am sick of it.

OP posts:

MargosKaftan · 16/12/2020 21:03

My goodness some people on here aren't helpful!

The op has got herself in a pickle, but at least is looking at the mess with open eyes at last.

Definitely check where you stand legally. (Not him, you!)

Definitely give him a tight deadline to have restarted the divorce process (not complete, that's unfair as its out of his control, and you don't want to have him agreeing to a bad deal for you for the sake of a few weeks)

Definitely call off the wedding and the engagement until he is free to marry.

Look at securing yours and your dcs lives without him. Just in case it turns out this is stalling because he doesn't want to be with you long term.

JinglingHellsBells · 16/12/2020 21:03

The above applies in the UK so not sure about Ireland.

I had a colleague whose DH left her and she did not want to divorce him. (In the UK.)

She was determined to make him wait 5 years after which he could divorce her without her 'consent'. But he was very wealthy and she earned very little, so they agreed a legal separation via a solicitor whereby he paid her an agreed amount each month and obviously other issues like access to the family home were agreed.

Original poster

Heisstillnotdivorced · 16/12/2020 21:05

Why do people keep saying I can't be engaged? An engagement is just a promise to get married. It's not a legal arrangement.

OP posts:

nancybotwinbloom · 16/12/2020 21:06

The reality is, this is your situation.

He needs to sort it out. Like, now.

For all of the reasons on here.

I hope you get what you want.

JinglingHellsBells · 16/12/2020 21:08

But when she contested the terms, it got more complicated requiring him to go back into court to battle it out yet again (they have been there many many many times already), he is massively avoiding and I am sick of it

I do understand this because I know of someone else where the finances were a stumbling block to the divorce settlement.

However, you need to check the timescales in your country. After 5 years separation it ought to be easier. (and it is that long.)

In the UK they would go to mediation in order to reach a settlement.

They need both their solicitors to fight it out.

If you jointly own the house you bought with him, that half will be yours regardless of whatever happens to him, but the question is does he have a will? He could leave his share to you, if he dies.