To think a woman wouldn't be praised for this like a man was

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Seen this story a few times today about Tom Cruise screaming at crew members on the set of Mission Impossible 7 for not social distancing and threatening to fire them www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-55330579

The comments on social media are almost unanimously positive, lots of "good for him" "well done Tom" and "he's gone up in my estimation".

Any time I see something like this I imagine how the reaction would be if it was a story about a woman. If Nicole Kidman had done this I bet my bottom dollar she'd be branded a psycho, hysterical, over emotional, needs to calm down, who does she think she is speaking like that to those poor men etc.

FWIW I think he behaved appallingly if my boss screamed at me at work I'd have something to say about it.

But AIBU to think a woman would have been treated differently for doing the same thing?

I think he behaved appalingly!!!!! You cannot scream at people like that. My OH thinks it's fine and he is justified.

@GlummyMcGlummerson
Totally different eras. McEnroe’s behavior would not be the least bit “cool” in 2020 ...in fact it wouldn’t be tolerated at all in his profession to begin with.

@LoveMyKidsAndCats
Losing your temper is never “good” but sometimes it is totally understandable - he was concerned about people’s livelihoods which were being endangered by needlessly reckless and lazy behavior. The support was less “good on him for shouting at them” and much more “I totally get why he was so pissed”.

@Cam77 Google or YouTube tennis players lose temper. Very famous faces, very recent games, all behaving like toddlers - Serena included in a lot of them behaving no worse.

Yup, I agree OP. One rule for men...

[quote CrotchBurn]@Wheresmykimchi

Oh my god! It's you again!! You were on the drag thread yesterday banging this drum.

What exactly is your agenda? What happened to make you passionate about this issue?[/quote]
Yes it's me again.

I note you haven't picked up on the fact glummy and Brum were also very active.

Why aren't you asking them thesr questions?

@JohnMcClane , no idea why you're picking me out but cheers I think

@GlummyMcGlummerson, my previous arguments aside you're doing a lot of excusing here. Women scream and shout because men are violent. It's okay Serena did it because the men did it too.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

The point is that you are telling me that I as a woman can never defend a man against other women , or if a woman makes any kind of claim against a man (I mean ridiculous ones like this , not abuse and the like ) then we must unanimously support it , or we are not proper women or feminists.

What a tremendous exaggeration. I don't pretend to tell any strangers who they can and Can't stick up for. But you perpetuate so many myths, refuse to looks at statistics (which contrary to your belief, do matter) and make a song and dance about the minority of men who suffer rather than the majority of women. You're more horrified at women's behaviour than men's same behaviour. You think women are responsible for men's duck ups and should pick up the pieces. I just think it's funny you call yourself a feminist

I don't think it's funny you call yourself a feminist , because I think it's chuffing great we even have the ability to debate this stuff whether we agree or not , but our ideas of feminism are different glummy.

I'm not more horrified at women's behaviour. Tom cruise was ridiculous . I never said otherwise . I just don't agree it's sexist. This is the crux of our entire argument across these threads.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

As for John McEnroe, everyone always thought he was an inappropriate assshat

It's not really the point, he made a fortune off his temper with sponsorships where he was in adverts "hilariously" screaming at people. Because his temper was considered to be amusing. I doubt anyone will be offering Serena Williams a contract for an advert where everyone gets the lols as she verbally abuses someone

It is the point, you said men were praised for it when women aren't.

McEnroe was famous for playing tennis, and known as an asshat, and yes, some people treated it as a joke, but many people didn't like him. I can remember people saying he should be penalised in the game for that crap. I am not sure he'd get away with it to the same extent today.

Cruise was praised by some for being tough about covid, but a lot of people have said that he's a jerk. (A lot of people thought he was a jerk before.) That's not what you said in your OP, you made it sound as if he was resoundingly praised by all.

As for some equivalent women - I agree that people don't always treat men and women quite the same. That being said, in the current climate, I think a woman who went off about distancing that way would also have some defend her on the grounds of "covid is really serious".

There are female famous people who are known for being difficult to work with, and there are people who defend them too, while others don't - Madonna comes to mind.

You are making absolute statements when the reality is not absolute.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

As for John McEnroe, everyone always thought he was an inappropriate assshat

It's not really the point, he made a fortune off his temper with sponsorships where he was in adverts "hilariously" screaming at people. Because his temper was considered to be amusing. I doubt anyone will be offering Serena Williams a contract for an advert where everyone gets the lols as she verbally abuses someone

I half agree on this point glummy (need a sit down).

But Gemma Collins has made a living from doing just that - she has made a brand from it. And on the whole , she gets a pretty good rep.

@PicsInRed

Gemma Collins has made a living out of screeching and bawling and shouting and being an all round diva. She is far from shamed.

Can you tell me a man who has done this?

Philip Schofield.

You're welcome.

Yep, I will give you that one.

But id argue that pre his latest ...revelation, if you will, he was slammed for that a great deal - people refused to work with him, this revelation of his came to the surface at a guess as a result of someone threatening to run to the papers.

Gemma on the other hand is cashing it in.

The headline that I saw definitely used scream not shout so the OP hasn't made this up.

OP you are completely right. Reactions would be very different if it were a woman.

@BrumBoo

This thread could be interesting if some posters could ignore each other for long enough to actually have a discussion

I dont disagree, however once you suggest not responding to a certain poster they start suggesting its 'bullying', and trying to 'silence opposing voices'.

That's unfair Brumboo.

I used the word bullying following a pile on , and a number of you suggesting to not respond to me.

And the person who said silence opposing voices wasn't me.

I actually thought you and I had made slight headway given that we agree on absolutely nothing

I think he is a total arse. Ok so be upset but going by past behaviour this is him on yet another ego trip.

There have been numerous incidences this week alone of posters - the same posters - masquerading as 'handmaidens' and attempting to me-rail threads. Even women who have openly stated they've been victims of rape are fair game. Yet these are the posters who claim everything is a personal attack on them as individuals, including posts which are nothing to do with their pathetic attempts to bring every conversation back around to them.

'Masquerading' being the key word here. The type of people who behave in this manner make themselves transparently clear and obviously get their jollies from doing this. I'm surprised MNHQ tolerates their behaviour.

What's wrong?-traffic on the MRA/Incel sites a bit light this week?

@GlummyMcGlummerson

I can't even be bothered with that , partly because despite you being dismissive of my experience as a domestic abuse survivor I can't bring myself to be dismissive of your role

I'm not dismissive of your experience I've simply said it's irrelevant when you're more horrified about the yhe negligible number of case accusations than you are female victims of male violence

We said yes. You didn't like it, because the only acceptable answer is yes.

I'm fine with people saying YABU. Several have an I haven't called them on it. But you in particular have escalated it into a "god you're such a sexist OP what about the poor accused men I could never be a feminist because of you". You've made some very similar handmaiden views in the short time I've seen your posts on this site, but you don't seem to like being called on it

No hang on you've lumped all my points into one.

The post about accusations was in relation to me saying about this idea of all women together regardless of anything is what creates personas like Roxanne Pallett.

The accusation thing was a separate thing as a result of that.

My point was men could never feel they could be feminists because you are so divisive between womern and men.

I'm not sure what a handmaiden view is.

Ive been on MN for ages but only usually post sparingly but I really struggle with man bashing threads. Maybe that's my weakness but I am who I am.

I'm not more horrified by the accusations than female violence but it's all relevant , isn't it.

I used the word bullying following a pile on , and a number of you suggesting to not respond to me.

You've used that word sparingly. Talking of which, you've conveniently not responded to my previous post directed at you.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

There have been numerous incidences this week alone of posters - the same posters - masquerading as 'handmaidens' and attempting to me-rail threads. Even women who have openly stated they've been victims of rape are fair game. Yet these are the posters who claim everything is a personal attack on them as individuals, including posts which are nothing to do with their pathetic attempts to bring every conversation back around to them.

'Masquerading' being the key word here. The type of people who behave in this manner make themselves transparently clear and obviously get their jollies from doing this. I'm surprised MNHQ tolerates their behaviour.

What's wrong?-traffic on the MRA/Incel sites a bit light this week?

Are you talking about me?

I would never and have never made a victim of rape 'fair game ' if you read carefully I pulled back on glummy when I learned she works in domestic abuse.

I don't get my jollies no. Nothings wrong , I just think there's been an increase in man bashing threads this week weirdly enough.

And MNHQ have not removed a single one of my posts nor spoken to me even though I've been here for years. Maybe that would suggest that it is abundantly clear to them that I simply have a different opinion.

Whether you agree with my views or not, if I had time and space in my life to derail threads for fun or troll, I wouldn't pick something that involves abuse and violence and rape. I'm not that much of a shit.

Thanks for the post designed to incite others to pile on though despite bringing nothing to the discussion yourself.

YANBU

Tom is taking the lead, taking charge, saving people from harm

Nicole would be hysterical, mean and controlling

Serena calls out sexism she calls out racism too o would imagine at times it’s both but calling out sexism will not get quite the same backlash as calling out both

@BrumBoo

I used the word bullying following a pile on , and a number of you suggesting to not respond to me.

You've used that word sparingly. Talking of which, you've conveniently not responded to my previous post directed at you.

Can you post it again? I've genuinely lost it in the posts.

I don't know what a handmaiden is

And MNHQ have not removed a single one of my posts nor spoken to me even though I've been here for years. Maybe that would suggest that it is abundantly clear to them that I simply have a different opinion.

Whether you agree with my views or not, if I had time and space in my life to derail threads for fun or troll, I wouldn't pick something that involves abuse and violence and rape. I'm not that much of a shit.

You have just done it to me, on another thread. And been pulled up for it too. You also did it to another poster to whom you later apologised. This thread is the one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4101567-AIBU-to-have-just-about-fucking-had-it-with-men

Your little games are painfully transparent. You've also now outed yourself as disingenuous to boot.

I see you. Clearly. I'll not be wasting further typeface.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

And MNHQ have not removed a single one of my posts nor spoken to me even though I've been here for years. Maybe that would suggest that it is abundantly clear to them that I simply have a different opinion.

Whether you agree with my views or not, if I had time and space in my life to derail threads for fun or troll, I wouldn't pick something that involves abuse and violence and rape. I'm not that much of a shit.

You have just done it to me, on another thread. And been pulled up for it too. You also did it to another poster to whom you later apologised. This thread is the one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4101567-AIBU-to-have-just-about-fucking-had-it-with-men

Your little games are painfully transparent. You've also now outed yourself as disingenuous to boot.

I see you. Clearly. I'll not be wasting further typeface.

Thats a massive thread.

I don't think you can expect me to find what you're talking about in that.

You are talking in riddles.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

And MNHQ have not removed a single one of my posts nor spoken to me even though I've been here for years. Maybe that would suggest that it is abundantly clear to them that I simply have a different opinion.

Whether you agree with my views or not, if I had time and space in my life to derail threads for fun or troll, I wouldn't pick something that involves abuse and violence and rape. I'm not that much of a shit.

You have just done it to me, on another thread. And been pulled up for it too. You also did it to another poster to whom you later apologised. This thread is the one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4101567-AIBU-to-have-just-about-fucking-had-it-with-men

Your little games are painfully transparent. You've also now outed yourself as disingenuous to boot.

I see you. Clearly. I'll not be wasting further typeface.

What you're doing is disingenuous - that is a 40 page thread and i have no idea what the 'other threads ' as re.

Either quote and show your proof (which I'm not sure why you're bringing into a different thread anyway ) or don't , but I believe what you're doing is troll hunting which is far closer to MNHQ removal than anything I've said.

@ChestnutStuffing the comments I'd seen were only positive.

Am I'm not making absolutely statements I think it's clear I was speculating and asking other to speculate with me

My point was men could never feel they could be feminists because you are so divisive between womern and men.

And there you have it. It's women's fault if men aren't on board with women's rights. Because the feminists haven't been nice enough to them