Was DD overreacting?

[christmascaroller]

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

@FlyingByTheSeatof

DD is correct

It's how they're taught these days and so many things are racist or homophobic that seem normal.
Just using the word faggot is homophobic in itself which is why DD was so upset that DH couldn't understand that concept no matter how much he may excuse it.

She will know people at school who are gay, Pan etc and having her dad make these kind of remarks will really upset her as it's disrespectful to people she knows and to her generation in general.

This

15 is also an age where a lot do consider their sexuality....for all he knows she may being doing this and has now learnt she cannot discuss anything with her dad. Thank god she has you

@SoupDragon

I saw mummy kissing santa-claus (implied adultary)

Isn't the whole point that Santa is his father in a costume?

Actually had forgotten what that song was about to be fair. So fair enough. Was wrong about most of this (and pretty drunk last night). But really? Baby it's cold outside does come across vaguely rapey to you? Just me then fair enough.

Baby it's cold outside does come across vaguely rapey to you?

No. It was written when social expectations were different and women were expected to be demure and not spend time alone with a man even if both fully clothed. My personal opinion is that people who think it is alluding to rape (I loathe the word "rapey") are trying to shoehorn in something that isn't there. If it were written now with those exact words it would be different but you have to view it in the context it was written in.

Both your husband and your daughter was being unreasonable.
Your husband for thinking that it’s fine
Your daughter for responding in that manner

There’s a hundred ways she could have handled that without resorting to insults herself.
Hopefully she’ll learn with age. Your husband however...

I think you should try to have a chat with her to explain that you don’t disagree with the sentiment but there are better ways to get your get the point across.

[quote TerribleLizard]@TatianaBis I don’t disagree with you that it is insulting to gay people at all. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be changed. I’m saying that if the Pogues were trying to tell a story about someone who was being homophobic, then they would have kept it in. They would have said it’s crucial that the character uses that word because they are using a homophobic slur because they are homophobic, and that is what we are trying to get across.

I think it’s highly relevant what the intention was, because people are saying it’s terrible that the word has been changed. The Pogues are saying it’s not terrible, it doesn’t change the story to change the lyrics, and have changed them.[/quote]
Again, The Pouges have not said that. Shane MacGowan has said that the song portrays a not particularly nice woman using insults, as it's part of the story, so they think it's ridiculous to change the lyric. However, as he doesn't want an argument, if people are offended, hr accepts that the lyric is changed. And he's a bit bored of the song anyway (despite it earning him around £386,000 per year....)

Just because it was “fine” to say years ago, doesn’t mean it’s fine now. I think your DD could’ve put it in a less harsh way, but then again, she’s a teenager and they don’t sugarcoat things. I don’t think that words should even be used when quoting something, because it can still be harmful.

@SoupDragon but the thing is, no matter when the song was written, it IS creepy and rapey. She said “no”, he’s trying to coerce her into saying yes. The end.

Good grief, she is 15, your husband is an adult. He should be pleased she is aware of and concerned about homophobic language, and that she feels able to challenge it. Yes she lost her temper, but again, she is 15, and he was being a twat.

In the 16th century, faggot was an insult of older women, apparently. So it's never been a 'nice' word (although Brains Faggots are delicious despite being smaller than they used to be).

I agree with your DD.

My daughter is like this isnt it exhausting? She cried the other day because I accidentally referred to her friend who now uses the pronoun "they" as "she". The friend wasn't here. So now I'm transphobic

I feel sorry for teenagers and people in their 20s. They’ve been fed so much epistemology, and post modern relativism that they can’t think straight.
Context and intention mean nothing compared to taking umbrage.

As the OP has vanished, isn't this just another wind-up post? There seem to be so many on here at the moment. Light the touch paper and run.

If I'd spoken to my father like that I think he'd have killed me and buried me in the garden!

The world is very black and white for young people. Eventually they will know that there soo many shades of grey... My teen niece said I was a bigot because I think giving puberty blockers and other hormonal drugs to preteens is dangerous. I am even a bit scared of writing this here because someone might take offence...

I always find it odd how many straight people get exited to say the slur, then offended if the version where the slur is replaced is played instead.

On my god, it’s “Old Slut on Junk” not Old Southern Drunk... mind blown, agree with Shane, their characters and that’s how vile they are too each other... censorship not necessary. Not answering OP’s question at all.

To clarify I don’t care if the version with the slur is played or not, I’m just very suspicious of straight (or cishet) people who get overly defensive about it not being offensive

Your DH's comment does come across as bigoted though. Ideally your DD should have made her point much more calmly but...she's 15. Sounds pretty standard to me.

@toomanyplants

Regardless of the previous conversation...if I'd called my dad a bigotted twat at 15 they would have been my last words!

^ THIS!

@reprehensibleme

It must be exhausting being young these days.

He he, so glad I'm not 😁

This reminds me so much of my own dd who is now 24. As a teenager, her attitude was off the scale. One day I’d left for work early and genuinely forgot to leave some cash out for her (£4 I think) it was half term so no school.

At work, I received a lovely text off her saying ‘mum you didn’t leave my money, thanks for ruining my day you dick’!

O

If she’s not objecting to the ‘slut on junk’ lyric then she’s a hypocrite and overreacting. My gay friends love this song, sing that lyric loudly and encourage us all to do the same. Time to get a grip 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

To be honest its a hard subject. I got told off for singing 'I feel pretty' as there is the line 'pretty and witty and gay'! Words are much more harmful these days, and there is quite a difference between a teenager who sees it as a slur, and an adult who knows it as having a completely unabusive term.

However, if my 15 year old called one of us a twat, we would be having serious words. Especially if she thinks that is a suitable way to voice an opinion

I’m off to the market to buy some fresh faggots for dinner, while the butcher is still allowed to sell them. I may also use some faggots to light the stove to cook them on.