Was DD overreacting?

[christmascaroller]

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

I would be more livid that your dd spoke in such a disgusting manner.

OK fair point I misread. why would he even want them to, though? i just don't see the desire to say slurs when they're completely avoidable

@TerribleLizard I’m sorry I just can’t be bothered to engage with any more of your nonsense. You justify one flimsy speculation with another. It’s absurd.

@TatianaBis Hahaha - don’t ever study literature, or art of any kind, then. You won’t like it

I agree the way he put it was poor, and if he actually meant 'isn't it ridiculous I can't insult gay people by calling them faggot any more' you'd have a point, but that isn't what anyone is debating here, No one on this thread has said 'It's so unfair I can't shout insults at my gay neighbour without people complaining. Political correctness gone mad.'

And TerribleLizard - you can't, surely, edit every word that has ever been offensive? Anywhere? I mean - I find cunt offensive, but I wouldn't want it removed from every Medieval document! And who decides which words you are to edit? You suggest that if it's offensive to Americans, that would trump a word's meaning in any other culture?

[quote TerribleLizard]@TatianaBis Hahaha - don’t ever study literature, or art of any kind, then. You won’t like it[/quote]
Erm I’ve got a double first and an MPhil in Eng Lit.

What I can’t be arsed with is wild speculation underpinned by extremely weak argument. It’s just a bit thick.

Why does it matter if a word might be a distraction and take the audience out of the moment - because it is unfamiliar or the meaning has changed? Why would the audience not just accept that?

Why should your children be horrified by a neutral slang term?

@mintkoala absolutely no you wouldn’t, as I said a writer telling a story about racism may wish to tell it in a very factual and visceral way. But you would choose your use of words carefully, and if you wanted a programme to be shown to a family audience you would choose how to tell that story so it would have the appropriate classification.

In terms of the word ‘fag’ for cigarette, it’s not that everyone must be protected from all words they would ever find offensive so you must expunge them, it’s that using words that stand out for the wrong reason means the audience spends their time thinking about the words not the story. In the US ‘fanny’ means backside, and I would advise American writers that your average school kid may find that word silly because of the meaning here, so ul they might want to change it to avoid a ‘ha ha he said fanny’ moment.

I mean, homophobic slur aside (which I am with your DD on), is this normal for teenagers these days? To speak like that to her father and then her mother comes on Mumsnet to 'check' whether she was overreacting or not.

Whether she was right or not it's completely unacceptable to call her Dad a twat. And then to allow her to stomp off and sulk?

Bloody hell. I have young DDs and I am not looking forward to the teenage years if this is somehow acceptable.

Well OP, you could always play your daughter Money for Nothing tonight and she could have yet another exhausting and pointless offended moment.

@mintkoala no one would be horrified - they’d just be thinking about a word, not the story the artist intended. For the same reason you wouldn’t have an actor wear a silly hat during a serious moment unless this was something that was really important to your story, or you wanted a particular effect. You wouldn’t want the audience to be thinking ‘what a silly hat’.

Thing is though, he was being a twat.

Way OTT. Honestly, I don’t think a lot of them actually even give a shit, it’s just cool to act like you care.

Sad but true IMO.

@TatianaBis As the original artist rewrote the lyrics and re-recorded the new lyrics, and perform them live it’s not really wild speculation to assume they are happy with this version.

terriblelizard
OK I agree with you if you're talking about a family audience. You wouldn't suggest someone writing for adults avoid 'fanny' though? I mean I'm distracted whenever someone in a Victorian novel ejaculates, but not very much because I am an adult. I think editors should expect me to do that, and not pander to my initial immature reaction.

@berrygirlie, I assume if the DD were gay the OP would have mentioned that as it would have been very relevant, wind your neck in. Regardless of sexual orientation, swearing at someone is insulting, which is what I was referring to.

Oh yes, because people who are LGBTQIA+ usually come out to their parents who advocate for the use of homophobic slurs in the modern day . Don't tell me to wind my neck in thanks, Chocolate.

terrible lizard (crossposted with your second point, about the hat)
Yes but you seem to be assuming the audience will see a silly hat if it is a culturally unfamiliar hat to them - and they might do, but on the other hand they might be able to get their head round it being an unfamiliar sort of hat.

@mintkoala yes, I’m not suggesting people need their smelling salts at hand to read the word ejaculated. I’m saying that if I was working on a new script set at the time I would say are you sure you want to use the word ejaculated at this serious moment, if you choose to, that’s fine, but make it an active choice... or if you were writing a spoof, do you want to include an ejaculated joke, it’s low hanging fruit.

Round of applause for your DD to be quite honest.

Really warms my heart to see young people so aware of social justice issues. This thread indicates we have quite a way to go as a society.

@berrygirlie

"Old slt on junk" @Imworthit*

Haha OK hear it now..... This is why getting offended by the word 'faggot' in this song, is offensive. The whole songs offensive. Take it for what it is or avoid it. Your husband is right that censoring gay references but not prostitute or heroine references if fundamentally fucked up. I personally don't love the whitewashing culture.

But your dh wasn't just quoting it, he was saying that it should be ok to say it - i.e. defending the use of a homophobic slur! She shouldn't have said what she said in those terms, but I'm not surprised she was angry. I have a 15yo dd and she would ferl the same if one of us defended the use of that word (which we wouldn't).

@berrygirlie

Oh yes, because people who are LGBTQIA+ usually come out to their parents who advocate for the use of homophobic slurs in the modern day . Don't tell me to wind my neck in thanks, Chocolate.

Actually this is exactly how my mum found out my sister, my cousin and I are bi and my aunt found out my cousin's best friend was gay. Luckily were blessed with the best mum... My cousin not so lucky.