Was DD overreacting?

[christmascaroller]

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

Either ways it wasn't a homophobic slur when the song was released and isn't really used as one in the UK

Yeah it was. Why do you think it's in there?

I would also point out (apologies if someone has already and I've missed it) that "faggot" is only a homophobic slur in the US.

It was a slur when I was growing up in the 70s/80s to the point where I couldn't understand why the meat product had a name like that.

Yes, it absolutely is a homophobic slur in the UK (or at least Scotland). Not just America.

I think when discussing these things with young people it’s good to let them speak first and talk about how they feel about it, and then when you offer your ideas be sure to be mindful and model to them how adults have intellectual discussions about such matters.

It’s really hard! But I think it’s great you’re having these conversations and what she said was wrong- but that doesn’t mean you should make it ‘off topic’ and instead try and keep these kinds of chats non-blaming and focus on the ‘thing’ not the person saying it.

Have you ever thought about the sentence 'Can I bum a fag? (can I have a cigarette?)' Weird

Love the idea that ' we' made homosexuality illegal until 67. None of us is that old!

What about the 1993 newspaper article which said that there could be a genetic link to homosexuality which was brilliant because it meant you could abort the baby? I was 15 in 1995, one of my close friends came out around that time.

Don’t dare offend the the lgbtq+++ crew but women? Sure why not,they have privilege 😒

@Scarydinosaurs

I think when discussing these things with young people it’s good to let them speak first and talk about how they feel about it, and then when you offer your ideas be sure to be mindful and model to them how adults have intellectual discussions about such matters.

It’s really hard! But I think it’s great you’re having these conversations and what she said was wrong- but that doesn’t mean you should make it ‘off topic’ and instead try and keep these kinds of chats non-blaming and focus on the ‘thing’ not the person saying it.

This

Explain to your daughter that insulting people and storming off is counter intuative to her supposed beliefs. Also ask kindly if she believes her dad is really homophobic? And why it triggered her. she might be gay or have a friend who is struggling. This is an opportunity to understand your daughter better.

@pizzaandcats

I'm with you - until I looked up the words this afternoon I also thought it said Old Southern Drunk.

What about it? That's not evidence that everyone was homophobic until the current generation, who suddenly realised that homophobia was a Bad Thing. Homophobia has been declining fairly steadily since well, 1967. And if the current generation see it off completely, I will be delighted. Still don't agree that using the wrong words makes you a bigot.

a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

I'd consider "using the wrong words" is antagonistic in this day and age. What reason do you have to use them anyway.

We are dealing with a passionately ‘woke’ and sometimes inversely hypocritical generation don’t you know.

Feels like in my my bloody house sometimes!!

sorry thats the definition of bigot

[quote applesandpears33]@pizzaandcats

I'm with you - until I looked up the words this afternoon I also thought it said Old Southern Drunk.[/quote]
What are the words? Also thought this

@Myneighboursnorlax

I don’t see a problem with quoting it in a discussion. I suspect your daughter had a bigger problem with her dad saying it’s ridiculous you aren’t allowed to say it any more, as that implies he sees no problem with the word.

I agree, although you can't quote the "n" word in a discussion (at least, not on MN).

"Old slt on junk" @Imworthit*

The single best part of this entire episode waswhen Lawrence Fox decided he needed the attention and tweeted about political correctness gone mad, the Pogues official twitter feed told him to “fuck off you herrenvolk shite”. For some reason any time I see “Lewes” in the TV listings I now feel compelled to play a Pogues song

Your DD was over-reacting and her inability to manage a simple conversation with her dad about her feelings proves she isn't quite as mature as she's trying to make out.
Sulking and being passive aggressive over her dad asking a question??
Leave her to it.....but don't pander to it.

If i were there i'd go and buy some of these and absolutely relish eating them
At least it's a humorous way of bringing the technicalities of the word 'faggot' back into the conversation

If she carries on....i'd take her shopping for the groceries and ask her to pass me the meatballs 4 faggots

@chickenchowmeins

sorry thats the definition of bigot

What is?

You can't call someone a bigot because they use language in a way your social group don't. Or even because they don't agree with you. If OPs husband had said 'I wish I didn't have to work with that faggot' or 'Faggots should be put up against a wall and shot' he would be a bigot, and DD would be justified. But he didn't. He said 'it's unreasonable that we can't even quote the word faggot in a song'. Even if I didn't agree with him, that's not bigotry.

the definition i provided upthread diva, not aimed at anyone

@TatianaBis If the fact that the character was being homophobic was the key part, they would likely have changed the lyric to another reference to the character being gay, without using the same offensive word. You can show a character is racist/xenophobic without racial slurs, just by using the word ‘foreign’ as an insult can be enough to convey it to a pre watershed audience. The fact that they cut that reference suggests that even if the original lyric was intended to be taken as being used a slur against gay people, that this is not the essential thing they are trying to convey. It’s just one of a collection of casual insults. Times have changed, and that one word doesn’t read as a casual insult to a large enough section of the population that it makes sense to change it.

If I was editing a piece of writing that referred to faggots as in the bundles of sticks, I would discuss how much the writer wanted to use that word because it may be a distraction to some of the audience, and may take the audience out of the moment. Equally, the word cunt wasn’t a taboo word in the Middle Ages, but I would talk through how including it will limit the audience in various ways, so is it important to the writer? In terms of racist some words are absolutely essential to the writer that they are used, because they’re saying ‘this is what I was called at the time, I want to show that’. I would also point out that in the US, a ‘fag’ would just read as a slur, so is it important to use that term for a cigarette if it jars with the audience? I wonder if that term will fall out of use in the UK, and my children will be horrified to hear it.

I’m not making a case that the song shouldn’t be changed, and the word isn’t offensive, I’m saying the opposite - that the writers were happy to change it, and that the storytelling of the song hasn’t suffered, and the song hasn’t been censored. I suggest that anyone who thinks it’s a crime that The Pogues have been ‘censored’ should go and listen to their song that was actually censored

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streets_of_Sorrow/Birmingham_Six

it's unreasonable that we can't even quote the word faggot in a song

No he said "isn't it ridiculous we can't say fggt anymore". that's not the same

No he said "isn't it ridiculous we can't say fggt anymore". that's not the same

No he didn't.

DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore".