To think this is unacceptable?

[flaviaritt]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9048759/Family-kicked-United-flight-New-Jersey-toddler-refused-wear-mask.html

This family were forced to leave a flight home because their two year old wouldn’t ‘comply’ with mask-wearing.

She’s 2.

Has the world gone mad? Surely it’s common sense that a young child should not be forced into a mask? Surely it’s a violation of the rights of the child to insist upon this?

@Wheresmykimchi

Thanks *@SleepingStandingUp*. What I find utterly arrogant is that we are expected to travel on planes with people who by their own way would just completely flout the rules , and if our health is risked , oh well.

If you are talking about an issue which could kill any of us , then yes we have a right to an opinion.

But you don't have to go on the plane either if you feel it's a risk do you?

The idea that only parents can have opinion na on children but anyone else can have an opinion on anything else is so concieted

You can have an opinion, but you can't be surprised when someone tells you you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Teaching a 2yo to realibly do xyz... Yeah pull the other one.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

You deflect. I also think the rule is ridiculous ...therefore I wouldn't buy a ticket and then start spouting about child abuse when asked to follow the rules. I just wouldn't book the ticket in the first place

Neither would I and I've already said that however I don't think airlines should be able to make essentially discriminatory rules like this which go against medical advice. It's disgusting and just really fucking stupid.

There's been a lot of horrible children hating shite spouted and it's all been acceptable "because covid". It's revolting.

It has been stated before that the family were flying to New Jersey.

The New Jersey mask mandate states that Gov. Phil Murphy's executive order of July 8 mandates face covering in indoor and outdoor public spaces for anyone over age 2. Separate state orders require construction and agricultural workers to wear masks on the job.

So it's not discriminatory rules, it is the mandate for the state they were flying to.

@TrustTheGeneGenie the entitlement continues. If I choose to get on a plane, where everyone is following the procedures to the best of their ability and something happens , well yes then that is my choice.

But if I am at risk because a parent KNOWINGLY the policy chose not to bother because little whoever doesn't want to and Im not forcing them , why should I be the one not to travel?

Do you know how entitled that sounds?

Um... when you say a two-year-old, you mean someone who has had their second birthday, right?

But that could be someone two-years-and-one-day-old, and someone two-years-three-hundred-and-sixty-four-days-old, and my experience of having brought up children tells me that each of them in turn developed a great deal between those two ages, more or less from 'can speak in sentences which don't always make a lot of sense' to 'it starting to grasp the idea of actions having consequences, and of logic'.

The difference between those two two-year-olds is a difference of one-third of their lived experience.

Il try another analogy @TrustTheGeneGenie ...I know you're not a fan of mine.

Our local takeaway only lets one person from a household in it at a time. Children count as a person regardless of their age. . There are single parents in our area who physically cannot go in unless they take a friend because they can't leave the child.

Do you think they should
A not go to that takeaway , as that rule is ridiculous and take their business elsewhere or
b march in anyway and when the person says you need to take your child out , start prattling about human rights and abuse .

@TrustTheGeneGenie

The idea that only parents can have opinion na on children but anyone else can have an opinion on anything else is so concieted

You can have an opinion, but you can't be surprised when someone tells you you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Teaching a 2yo to realibly do xyz... Yeah pull the other one.

But no one is saying about teaching them to do it. They are saying they wouldn't be happy with your maskless child, and despite your latest post , given they are the people on the plane with them , they are entitled to an opinion

Why can't I say both? I would avoid (as I've said numerous times now) but I would also call them out on it.

But that could be someone two-years-and-one-day-old, and someone two-years-three-hundred-and-sixty-four-days-old, and my experience of having brought up children tells me that each of them in turn developed a great deal between those two ages, more or less from 'can speak in sentences which don't always make a lot of sense' to 'it starting to grasp the idea of actions having consequences, and of logic'.

I don't understand your point. The child was not the one buying the ticket, reading the T&Cs or making the choice to use that airline.

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@TrustTheGeneGenie the entitlement continues. If I choose to get on a plane, where everyone is following the procedures to the best of their ability and something happens , well yes then that is my choice.

But if I am at risk because a parent KNOWINGLY the policy chose not to bother because little whoever doesn't want to and Im not forcing them , why should I be the one not to travel?

Do you know how entitled that sounds?[/quote]
Entitled?

All I said was you know what the risk is. If you were so risk averse why would you even get the flight?

All I said was you know what the risk is. If you were so risk averse why would you even get the flight?

Maybe because you were reassured that everyone would be wearing a mask?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Why can't I say both? I would avoid (as I've said numerous times now) but I would also call them out on it.

Excellent. So you would boycott the airline , and complain about them. That is fine , at this point.

What you can't do is order your meal, eat it, then return later to say that you thought it was outrageous because you have already agreed to the service.

If the parent was complaining about not wanting to put a mask on their child and they therefore couldn't book the flight, I would agree.

I also half agree to the awkward position it must be if you thought they would do it and they didn't.

What I object to is the OPs stance that forcing the mask on is abuse , or that this policyis in any way discrimination.

Ok well I think it is discriminatory and I think forcing masks on 2yos is horrific. Let's agree to disagree shall we.

@slashlover

All I said was you know what the risk is. If you were so risk averse why would you even get the flight?

Maybe because you were reassured that everyone would be wearing a mask?

That would never ever be the case though as some people are exempt.

@TrustTheGeneGenie because there is a difference between getting a flight full of adults with masks on (what i could expect having read the policy?) And a flight full of children who have just spent a term in a school/nursery/wherever where positive cases and isolation are widespread?

And as I said upthread, if your two year old doesn't have to does my five year old? Ten year old? 17 year old? Adult with mental age of a child? Before you know it , the risk has tripled.

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@TrustTheGeneGenie because there is a difference between getting a flight full of adults with masks on (what i could expect having read the policy?) And a flight full of children who have just spent a term in a school/nursery/wherever where positive cases and isolation are widespread?

And as I said upthread, if your two year old doesn't have to does my five year old? Ten year old? 17 year old? Adult with mental age of a child? Before you know it , the risk has tripled.[/quote]

@TrustTheGeneGenie yes some people are exempt , but I work in a school of 1000 people and I know how many are exempt. I go into supermarkets and I see how many staff are exempt. I can roughly expect how many exempt there would be. And even still, in an ideal we would have no exempt people. But we do , and have to calculate our risks. I take your point on that. But again, exempt people are allowed to fly minus masks. Toddlers aren't.

@TrustTheGeneGenie what's the problem now? Has it just occurred to you that there are more people in the world who people might not want to mask than just your own two year old?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Ok well I think it is discriminatory and I think forcing masks on 2yos is horrific. Let's agree to disagree shall we.

I don't disagree on the forcing point, but I've explained several times why it isnt discrimination.

Not allowing two year olds to fly is discrimination.
Letting two year olds fly without masks but no other small child is discrimination.

The airline have taken the one decision that isn't discrimination.

Ok well I think it is discriminatory and I think forcing masks on 2yos is horrific. Let's agree to disagree shall we.

You might think it's horrific, you are therefore able to not buy a ticket for a company which has that policy. There are companies which have policies I disagree with therefore I don't use those companies.

slashlover
"But that could be someone two-years-and-one-day-old, and someone two-years-three-hundred-and-sixty-four-days-old, and my experience of having brought up children tells me that each of them in turn developed a great deal between those two ages, more or less from 'can speak in sentences which don't always make a lot of sense' to 'it starting to grasp the idea of actions having consequences, and of logic'."
I don't understand your point. The child was not the one buying the ticket, reading the T&Cs or making the choice to use that airline.

My point was nothing to do with who bought the ticket, and everything to do with the fact that there is a considerable developmental difference between a child 731 days old and a child 1094 days old, but both are called two-year-olds.

It is quite likely that a child near the younger end of that age might a screaming mask-refuser whilst one at the older end might be perfectly capable of understanding that wearing a mask is what is required on a plane flight and he or she wants to be grown up like mummy and daddy.

(The last bit of that sentence is debatable; I think the parents here have very little to distinguish them from a toddler in a tantrum because they couldn't have exactly what they wanted after they were told "no" by an adult. ymmv, and some people here clearly think these spoilt brats were in the right.)

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@TrustTheGeneGenie what's the problem now? Has it just occurred to you that there are more people in the world who people might not want to mask than just your own two year old?[/quote]
No?? The was because I haven't disagreed with you about that and yet you're still ranting at me about it!

@slashlover

Ok well I think it is discriminatory and I think forcing masks on 2yos is horrific. Let's agree to disagree shall we.

You might think it's horrific, you are therefore able to not buy a ticket for a company which has that policy. There are companies which have policies I disagree with therefore I don't use those companies.

Yes... I've already said I wouldn't.. now many times would you like me to say it?

I agree 2 year old shouldn't be made to wear a mask.

But then I wouldn't try and take a 2 year old on a flight where a mask would be required. Can't have it both ways

It is quite likely that a child near the younger end of that age might a screaming mask-refuser whilst one at the older end might be perfectly capable of understanding that wearing a mask is what is required on a plane flight and he or she wants to be grown up like mummy and daddy.

Then maybe just choose a different airline if you are unsure instead of buying a ticket and then complaining?