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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this is unacceptable?

386 replies

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 08:07

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9048759/Family-kicked-United-flight-New-Jersey-toddler-refused-wear-mask.html

This family were forced to leave a flight home because their two year old wouldn’t ‘comply’ with mask-wearing.

She’s 2.

Has the world gone mad? Surely it’s common sense that a young child should not be forced into a mask? Surely it’s a violation of the rights of the child to insist upon this?

OP posts:
Original poster
flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 09:32

Then you don't use them, not use them and assume your exempt because you disagree

This isn’t the point.

OP posts:
MaryLeeOnHigh · 14/12/2020 09:33

@flaviaritt

I know it’s their policy. And yet, a policy expecting a 2 year old to wear a mask is inhumane and - I would argue - is a violence to the child.
The airline neither forces the child to travel on its flights or to make the journey at all. Of course it isn't violence to anyone.
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 14/12/2020 09:33

The policy is a different matter.

The point is the family knew about it when they booked the tickets.

MaryLeeOnHigh · 14/12/2020 09:34

@flaviaritt

Then you don't use them, not use them and assume your exempt because you disagree

This isn’t the point.

It is 100% the point.
Figgygal · 14/12/2020 09:35

It’s their policy which was clear at time of booking
They have the right to enforce it
Maybe they should have encouraged her and normalised it for her in advance

KatherineJaneway · 14/12/2020 09:38

YABU. The issue here isn't the mask wearing rule, its the fact these people knew the rules but decided to travel anyway. Either get your kid used to a mask before flying or don't fly.

Ratatcat · 14/12/2020 09:38

The policy is unfair but they chose to get on the flight for a dinner so it is entirely down to them to enforce the rules of the airline. There is no way I could get my nearly 2 year old to wear a mask and I wouldn’t want her to therefore I wouldn’t be putting her on a plane where one was mandatory.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 09:42

@flaviaritt

Then you don't use them, not use them and assume your exempt because you disagree

This isn’t the point.

It is though.

Their holidays were disrupted and their daughter upset because they looked at a policy and thought nah, we don't need to abide by that. There's no indication that she's always happily wore a mask and today was a one off. Ot sounds more like it's not normally imposed / someone looks the other way.

They're within their rights to boycott or start a petition etc but they can't just decide there rules aren't for them.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 09:45

, a policy expecting a 2 year old to wear a mask is inhumane and - I would argue - is a violence to the child
On a mandatory journey where someone is pinning the child or sedating them to enforce it perhaps. But telling parents "no mask, no fun travel with us" isn't inhumane! And the only violence carried out would be by the parents, which obv no non abusive parent would do anyway so is a jul poiny

FOJN · 14/12/2020 09:45

I don't agree with the policy but equally I don't agree with the family buying tickets when they knew the policy and then making a fuss when the policy was enforced.

It looks like a publicity stunt from a family with a point to make and the funds to do it.

AlternativePerspective · 14/12/2020 09:46

i give it a month before one of them has COVID. COVID denying, trump supporting, anti mask tabloid attention seekers.

The policy exists. If you don’t like it, don’t do business with that airline, it ain’t hard.

As an aside, only the UK seems to be pandering to this notion that children shouldn’t have to wear masks. In the Far East where masks are commonplace anyway they don’t seem to have issues with children wearing them. My eXH’s DS apparently wears one, maybe if some children were told instead of constantly being pandered to we wouldn’t have such a generation of entitled children.

Marmite27 · 14/12/2020 09:47

A) They knew the policy when they booked.
B) Did it not occur to them to practice putting it on before the flight? We have kids masks here with characters on, I’m sure they do in America.

Of course it’s not ‘violence’ that their policy includes 2 year olds. I have a 2 year old and she’s quite happy wearing a mask on the odd occasion. We have them in the dressing up box, originally for the dr and vet set, but they now get used when they play shops.

liveitwell · 14/12/2020 09:48

YANBU. Whoever came up with their mask wearing policy clearly hasn't had a two year old, not in a long time anyway.

It's completely unfair to expect a toddler to comply. In addition, the risk of transmission from the age group seems quite low according to evidence so is just non-sensical.

Having said that, the family have flown 4 times since lockdown and we're hoping to meet friends and family that night and the next day... No wonder there's a huge problem in America. Do they not appreciate the risk involved with keeping up such an active social life during the pandemic.

Original poster
flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 09:50

It isn’t the point. I’m not asking whether they should have flown. I’m not asking whether they have a choice about whether to fly. I am asking whether the airline is unreasonable to mandate that toddlers have to wear masks. In and of itself. I’m not interested in the rest of it.

OP posts:
Original poster
flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 09:51

Of course it’s not ‘violence’ that their policy includes 2 year olds. I have a 2 year old and she’s quite happy wearing a mask on the odd occasion.

And if she wasn’t happy? Would you force her?

OP posts:
ShyTown · 14/12/2020 09:51

The mask policy for the US airlines including United has been around for months now and is really well known. These stories pop up about once a week and many US states have mask policies for 2 year olds anyway (ours did). Of course it is unrealistic to get a toddler to comply if they really don’t want to but the family could have driven or not taken the trip altogether. I flew transatlantic with a toddler in September and knew I couldn’t guarantee 3YO DD would keep a mask on the whole flight so I made sure to book with BA rather than one of the US airlines so she could remove it as soon as she was onboard the aircraft if she wanted to.

MaryLeeOnHigh · 14/12/2020 09:52

@flaviaritt

It isn’t the point. I’m not asking whether they should have flown. I’m not asking whether they have a choice about whether to fly. I am asking whether the airline is unreasonable to mandate that toddlers have to wear masks. In and of itself. I’m not interested in the rest of it.
In that case you've chosen the wrong news report to hang the issue on. Show us somewhere where a toddler absolutely has to be that enforces mask wearing for toddlers, and it might be worth debating.
elliejjtiny · 14/12/2020 09:54

They should have practiced wearing a mask beforehand and not travelled if their toddler can't wear one. I thought there were lots of places including most hospitals that insist on mask wearing from the age of 2. I struggle with masks so I wear one if I have a hospital appointment and avoid going anywhere else that requires me to wear one.

Original poster
flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 09:55

In that case you've chosen the wrong news report to hang the issue on.

I haven’t. They have no way of knowing why someone is travelling and they apply this disgusting policy to all 2 year olds. The justification for travel is irrelevant for that reason.

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 09:56

Exactly @MaryLeeOnHigh , op you've made it about this family who took time to make sure they took sad face photos for the inevitable Instagram whine, not on the fact that 2 year D's are being denied travelling on essential journeys. They aren't being banned from making essential journeys and even for non essential you can choose to do it with someone who doesn't have what seems to be a fairly standard US rule.

Original poster
flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 09:56

But telling parents "no mask, no fun travel with us" isn't inhumane! And the only violence carried out would be by the parents, which obv no non abusive parent would do anyway so is a jul poiny

So you think the airline can just abdicate responsibility for their policy that results in violence to children, by saying, “Well, you don’t have to do it”? Nothing to do with them?

OP posts:
Ivy455 · 14/12/2020 09:58

My two year old won't even keep a hair tie in.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 09:58

@flaviaritt

In that case you've chosen the wrong news report to hang the issue on.

I haven’t. They have no way of knowing why someone is travelling and they apply this disgusting policy to all 2 year olds. The justification for travel is irrelevant for that reason.

The 2 yo policy is backed up by the CDC and is commonplace in the US seemingly. So no, their policy is not unreasonable. We don't get to enforce our policies and ideals on a different nation just because we feel morally superior to them
SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 10:00

@flaviaritt

But telling parents "no mask, no fun travel with us" isn't inhumane! And the only violence carried out would be by the parents, which obv no non abusive parent would do anyway so is a jul poiny

So you think the airline can just abdicate responsibility for their policy that results in violence to children, by saying, “Well, you don’t have to do it”? Nothing to do with them?

Yes because they're not on ANY WAY responsible for abusive parents. Don't be utterly ridiculous. If you are violent to your child that is on you. Not someone else because they made you FFS.

You have to sit down and be in a seat belt for loft off. Is that abusive towards 2 year olds? Because you might bribe your DC with sweets but Bob might hit his 2 yo to make him sit down? Is Bob let off from being an abusive parent because the airline MADE HIM DO IT?

17days · 14/12/2020 10:02

I am asking whether the airline is unreasonable to mandate that toddlers have to wear masks. In and of itself. I’m not interested in the rest of it

They're probably unreasonable, yes. In that it inevitably leads to situations like this. Two is just a bit too young to be confident that a child will understand what he's being asked to do without having a tantrum. Probably four would have been better.

But I think it's fine to point out that they're a private company who implement whatever rule they please. People should be voting with their feet against ones they disagree with.