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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is unacceptable?

386 replies

flaviaritt · 14/12/2020 08:07

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9048759/Family-kicked-United-flight-New-Jersey-toddler-refused-wear-mask.html

This family were forced to leave a flight home because their two year old wouldn’t ‘comply’ with mask-wearing.

She’s 2.

Has the world gone mad? Surely it’s common sense that a young child should not be forced into a mask? Surely it’s a violation of the rights of the child to insist upon this?

OP posts:
Bollss · 14/12/2020 18:54

I don't have a child

Right well then with all due respect - pipe down because you've clearly got no idea. .

And no I've said several times I don't agree with kids of any age wearing masks all day.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 18:56

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I don't have a child

Right well then with all due respect - pipe down because you've clearly got no idea. .

And no I've said several times I don't agree with kids of any age wearing masks all day.

I've heard it all now.

So because I don't have my own child I'm not able to assess a situation involving a child?
Or have an opinion ?Righto.

Dodgy ground , luckily I couldn't care less but remember words hurt people.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 18:57

Words do hurt people but you had no qualms about comparing toddlers to dogs, did you?

Before I had 2 year old I didn't realise quite how strong willed they could be, clearly you don't either. Don't preach about something you have no experience of.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 18:59

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Words do hurt people but you had no qualms about comparing toddlers to dogs, did you?

Before I had 2 year old I didn't realise quite how strong willed they could be, clearly you don't either. Don't preach about something you have no experience of.

I wouldn't make a flippant comment about a child because I dont have one. I wasn't comparing dogs and children , I was pointing out that I assess the risks and don't just wave my hands about saying 'but it should be OK'.

What a bizarre leap to assume as I don't have my own child I have no experience of two year olds...

I also wasn't preaching. I was answering the question like everyone else. Flavia has lectured on at length about child abuse but you have no issue with that. Odd.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:02

I don't stalk posters previous threads so I have no idea what you're talking about.

If you don't have your own two year old it's highly unlikely unless you work in childcare (which you clearly don't) that you know what a two year old is actually like. Relentlessly, 24/7.

You were comparing dogs to children, but you somehow can't accept that you can't reliably teach a 2yo to do something.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:05

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I don't stalk posters previous threads so I have no idea what you're talking about.

If you don't have your own two year old it's highly unlikely unless you work in childcare (which you clearly don't) that you know what a two year old is actually like. Relentlessly, 24/7.

You were comparing dogs to children, but you somehow can't accept that you can't reliably teach a 2yo to do something.

Eh? Flavia has lectured on at length on this thread about child abuse?

I do work in childcare Grin to an extent...but carry on making things up.

I didn't compare dogs to children. I deliberately didn't use children in a flippant example because I don't have them and wouldn't want to offend. I'll apologise for the analogy if it offends you.

There are some barbaric comments on this thread about people die every day oh well and you pick me out. Good one.

It isn't about what two year olds are like. Thst wasn't the question. The question was whether it is inhumane etc etc etc to make a child wear a mask and that the airline is responsible for the abuse of children being forced to wear them , which is completely unreasonable.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:06

You work in childcare but you've clearly never met a 2yo? Ah ok then. Of course.

I picked out your comment because it was utterly ridiculous.

Saying people die everyday is a fact, so..

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:08

@TrustTheGeneGenie

You work in childcare but you've clearly never met a 2yo? Ah ok then. Of course.

I picked out your comment because it was utterly ridiculous.

Saying people die everyday is a fact, so..

This might have escaped your notice...but children are children up til the age of 17,=despite your and OPs obsession with toddlers being the be all and end all and the only voice that matters.

Aren't you lovely. I'm sure people who lose relatives to covid based on selfish acts like this one will be alright cause they die every day , folk.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:09

@TrustTheGeneGenie

You work in childcare but you've clearly never met a 2yo? Ah ok then. Of course.

I picked out your comment because it was utterly ridiculous.

Saying people die everyday is a fact, so..

I also didn't say Id never met a 2 year old. I said I didn't have my own child.

If you are restricting the discussion to people with their own two year old , that would be an issue. But given you're about the only poster who agrees with Flavia , I am sure the rest of us will struggle on.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:10

Yes I realise that, but saying you work in childcare as a "ha! I do know what I'm talking about" when you clearly don't is just silly.

People do die every day I'm not saying fuck covid people die every day, it's just a fact, they do! If I said they didn't that would be a big fat lie, wouldn't it?

I don't have an obsession with toddlers, but this thread is about a toddler. It would have been weird for me to start ranting off topic about teenagers ffs.

slashlover · 14/12/2020 19:10

If you don't have your own two year old it's highly unlikely unless you work in childcare (which you clearly don't) that you know what a two year old is actually like. Relentlessly, 24/7.

So then don't book a ticket which isn't suitable for them.

If there is something which has a height restriction and I am too small then it's MY fault for booking the ticket. If something has an age restriction and I am too young then that is MY fault for booking the ticket. If something requires a a child to wear a mask and the child may not be able to then that is the parents fault for booking the ticket.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:11

I'm clearly not the only person who thinks the rule is ridiculous. Many posters have agreed. Hmm

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:13

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I'm clearly not the only person who thinks the rule is ridiculous. Many posters have agreed. Hmm
You deflect. I also think the rule is ridiculous ...therefore I wouldn't buy a ticket and then start spouting about child abuse when asked to follow the rules. I just wouldn't book the ticket in the first place.
Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:16

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Yes I realise that, but saying you work in childcare as a "ha! I do know what I'm talking about" when you clearly don't is just silly.

People do die every day I'm not saying fuck covid people die every day, it's just a fact, they do! If I said they didn't that would be a big fat lie, wouldn't it?

I don't have an obsession with toddlers, but this thread is about a toddler. It would have been weird for me to start ranting off topic about teenagers ffs.

It wasn't meant as a ha. You asked me a question and I answered it.

Yes....but saying people die every day therefore it doesn't really matter about the people put at risk because a parent thinks their toddlers rights not to wear a mask and do as they like comes above other people's rights , is barbaric.

My pal who is perfectly healthy and would presumably survive covid who works in a care home doesn't go meeting 35 folk then going in to vulnerable grannies because she actually cares about them. she doesn't skip around the place doing as she likes because she doesn't fancy wearing a mask and then risk other people just because people die every day. Sometimes it's about other people , not just you. Or your child.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:16

You deflect. I also think the rule is ridiculous ...therefore I wouldn't buy a ticket and then start spouting about child abuse when asked to follow the rules. I just wouldn't book the ticket in the first place

Neither would I and I've already said that however I don't think airlines should be able to make essentially discriminatory rules like this which go against medical advice. It's disgusting and just really fucking stupid.

There's been a lot of horrible children hating shite spouted and it's all been acceptable "because covid". It's revolting.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:17

My pal who is perfectly healthy and would presumably survive covid who works in a care home doesn't go meeting 35 folk then going in to vulnerable grannies because she actually cares about them. she doesn't skip around the place doing as she likes because she doesn't fancy wearing a mask and then risk other people just because people die every day. Sometimes it's about other people , not just you. Or your child

Yeah that's totally the same as a toddler not wearing a mask on a plane. There's clearly no point in arguing with you if you can't even understand why that comparison is utterly laughable.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:18

@TrustTheGeneGenie

You deflect. I also think the rule is ridiculous ...therefore I wouldn't buy a ticket and then start spouting about child abuse when asked to follow the rules. I just wouldn't book the ticket in the first place

Neither would I and I've already said that however I don't think airlines should be able to make essentially discriminatory rules like this which go against medical advice. It's disgusting and just really fucking stupid.

There's been a lot of horrible children hating shite spouted and it's all been acceptable "because covid". It's revolting.

Child hating Grin

You book a ticket on a plane knowing your child has to wear a mask. You don't want your child to wear a mask. You can't travel. It's simple.

What about the doctor sitting near the child who is off to see vulnerable patients? Do we just risk him and the hundreds he comes into contact with because YOUR child doesn't want to wear a mask?
It's not child hating. It's following rules to protect everyone.

If you start excluding children , who next ? Thats when it becomes discriminatory. Therefore the rules are clear and you make your choice.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:20

@TrustTheGeneGenie

My pal who is perfectly healthy and would presumably survive covid who works in a care home doesn't go meeting 35 folk then going in to vulnerable grannies because she actually cares about them. she doesn't skip around the place doing as she likes because she doesn't fancy wearing a mask and then risk other people just because people die every day. Sometimes it's about other people , not just you. Or your child

Yeah that's totally the same as a toddler not wearing a mask on a plane. There's clearly no point in arguing with you if you can't even understand why that comparison is utterly laughable.

But it is the same. Why should my pal take responsibility for something that doesn't affect her when you won't take responsibility (given that the child can't make that decision) for other people. Why? Because you're a PARENT? Why does the child's rights to do as she likes trump my pals?
Bourbonbiccy · 14/12/2020 19:21

Surely, especially in these times you check the regulations of the flight company before booking.

If you think the regulations are ridiculous and you cant/ refuse to abide by said guidelines, don't book the tickets.

WoolieLiberal · 14/12/2020 19:21

Ah. America.

That kind of explains it.

I think they have different expectations on the level of compliance/ maturity expected of small children.

See my thread about me being upset at seeing a news story about a school beating a five year old as punishment for spitting and you’ll see what I mean.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:22

@TrustTheGeneGenie

You deflect. I also think the rule is ridiculous ...therefore I wouldn't buy a ticket and then start spouting about child abuse when asked to follow the rules. I just wouldn't book the ticket in the first place

Neither would I and I've already said that however I don't think airlines should be able to make essentially discriminatory rules like this which go against medical advice. It's disgusting and just really fucking stupid.

There's been a lot of horrible children hating shite spouted and it's all been acceptable "because covid". It's revolting.

It isn't discrimination. discrimination would be saying that 2 year olds can't fly , or that everyone has to wear a mask except 2 year olds.

They've gone for the one option that isn't discrimination.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 14/12/2020 19:26

@TrustTheGeneGenie

You deflect. I also think the rule is ridiculous ...therefore I wouldn't buy a ticket and then start spouting about child abuse when asked to follow the rules. I just wouldn't book the ticket in the first place

Neither would I and I've already said that however I don't think airlines should be able to make essentially discriminatory rules like this which go against medical advice. It's disgusting and just really fucking stupid.

There's been a lot of horrible children hating shite spouted and it's all been acceptable "because covid". It's revolting.

The policy has been backed by the CDC. Do I agree with it? No. Would I fly with them anyways and hope for the best? Also no.

If rules are stupid yes they should be challenged, but there are ways to do that besides "well I can't believe you expect the rules to apply to me!". Particularly since subjecting yourself/your child to those rules was not necessary or essential.

Bollss · 14/12/2020 19:35

Yeah I'm not arguing against that....

SleepingStandingUp · 14/12/2020 19:36

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I don't stalk posters previous threads so I have no idea what you're talking about.

If you don't have your own two year old it's highly unlikely unless you work in childcare (which you clearly don't) that you know what a two year old is actually like. Relentlessly, 24/7.

You were comparing dogs to children, but you somehow can't accept that you can't reliably teach a 2yo to do something.

It's got stuff all to do with having a 2 yo of your own.

Rule: 2 years olds must do X to use this service.

Most people know that 2 year olds are generally unpredictable so in theory wouldn't take their 2 yo to use the service as they might not do X. They can have an opinion on people wanting to use the service with their 2 yo.

Present owners of 2 year olds will know if their child is (like pp have mentioned) high likely to do X, hit and miss, or absolutely not a chance (my DS at that age) and therefore can make indivodualised decisions on using the service with their 2 yo.

Some pp have said their 2 would and indeed does wear a mask
Some of us know there's no chance.
Those people are still able to have an opinion on generic 2 year olds.

The idea that only parents can have opinion na on children but anyone else can have an opinion on anything else is so concieted.

Wheresmykimchi · 14/12/2020 19:44

Thanks @SleepingStandingUp. What I find utterly arrogant is that we are expected to travel on planes with people who by their own way would just completely flout the rules , and if our health is risked , oh well.

If you are talking about an issue which could kill any of us , then yes we have a right to an opinion.