Withholding pudding if child hasn't eaten 'enough'

[Toriathebadger]

I'm a bit torn about this. DS3 (4) is becoming fussy, I think it's just a phase as he's always been a good eater and has plenty of fruit and veg. Just lately he's hardly been eating his meal and says he's gone off a lot of the food he would usually eat. His dad (ex dp) expects me to withhold pudding if ds hasn't eaten 'enough'. He does it with his dd (from previous) who is a fussy eater. He makes her stay at the table until she's eaten 'enough', and if she doesn't then she can't have pudding. It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think there's a happy medium here, as I encourage ds to eat a bit more but ultimately if he's finished then I let him have pudding and don't make an issue out of it. Ex is horrified and thinks I'm ridiculous.

Who is being unreasonable? Either of us? Just different parenting styles?

@shallbe

Of course you withhold pudding if they haven't eaten their dinner, if they're too full for dinner they should be too full for pudding. If you've introduced something new I'd be a bit more flexible if they've tried it, but I've stopped puddings recently as mine just aren't eating all their dinner so what's the point getting it in.

So is there an age cut off where you deem your child magically capable of assessing their own hunger? What age is that? Are you fine with other adults telling your child that they have to eat ‘all their dinner’? Especially since people plate up different portion sizes all the time, and what one adult thinks is a small portion, another thinks is massive.

Every parent thinks they know best, but the fact is, it’s also about the precedent and messages you send. If your child has grown up with someone else making decisions for them about their own appetite, they don’t just magically become self-aware eaters when they hit a certain age.

Look at this thread, read what people who have food disorders say about their well meaning parents.

DHs family used to do this. He had to finish all his food, every single bit, and then was given chocolate cake or something similar. All his family are obese, but tha fully DH found rugby and fitness, but now he eats everything around him even though he isnt hungry, he is addicted to sugar and has to have it after dinner. He almost twitches if he doesnt have it. I make him hide it from DD because we both agree rewarding her for shovelling more food into her than she needs is a bad habit to instill. I would say remove the pudding and keep them for maybe one day a week or specific events and allow her eat the amounts she wants. Once she realises it's the dinner or nothing, she may eat it. But I dont think basically force feeding her will give her a good relationship with foods especially if you are trying to give her healthy dinners. She will just associate healthy food with bad things

You have put too much on her plate. Reduce the portion size and offer a ‘change’ (we never called it pudding, just ‘would you like something else’?)

If DS didn’t want to finish, the only thing I would ask him to eat a little more of (and would always make it a small amount) was meat. He was taught to respect that meat was an animal and we were grateful for it, so not to waste it.

I let my kids have something after their tea like a biscuit or small bag of chocolate buttons. Not a proper 'pudding'.

But the rule is that if they're not hungry enough for their meal they're not hungry enough for afters.

I never force them to eat if they don't want to but won't let them have a treat if they haven't eaten a reasonable amount of food.

I never make them clear their plate, but equally I don't let them get up and leave the table after picking and nibbling and not eating very much.

It's just getting the balance right and not creating too much drama around mealtimes but making sure they understand that they can't stuff their faces with crap if they're not hungry for a proper meal.

It's the ridiculousness of having to eat more of something before you can then have yet something else!

How does that make sense?

I agree though it depends on the meal & pudding.

I grew up with a SD who made my life a bloody misery about food, don’t ever punish a child because of food.

DD (3) is generally a decent eater but sometimes prioritises the bits she likes best (unsurprisingly). Our policy is that a reasonable amount of everything has to be eaten, particularly vegetables, before she can have dessert. We don't force her to eat anything she really dislikes though, and don't encourage her to overeat. It's worked well so far - she will eat a good range of vegetables, and doesn't seem to see it as a chore. She'll generally try at least a small bite of new foods.

When she was two she had a phase where basically all she would eat was pasta with pesto or plain bread, so I'm glad we've moved away from that.

@diddl not as ridiculous as giving a child whose just "too full" to eat some veg (cal 26) a bolus of sugar (cal 200).

This thread tells us everything about childhood obesity we need to know.

I think both of you have the wrong idea actually. Nobody should ever make a child sit and eat something they don’t fancy. So if they refuse food just clear it away with a smile and no comment at all. Or ‘no problem don’t eat it’ if they say they don’t like it. And don’t offer any pudding. If they ask if there is any pudding after not touching their food then it’s a simple ‘not today no’.

If they eat a good portion of the food including veg then you can mention you have pudding today and would they care for some?

I’ve had 4 children and I simply don’t have time for battles. It’s amazing how much they eat when there is no pressure / cajoling / black mail or threats but equally, what you make is all there is, and if they don’t eat it, away it goes!

I must say, the horror of “pudding” on this thread is very weird.

If they only have a few bites of the main, they're certainly not having pudding.

Never had pudding in our house unless it’s a yogurt or fruit ..cake is for birthdays.
I can remember sitting for hours at the table being forced to eat as well.
Lead to a lifetime of eating problems
My children choose what goes on their plate ,from healthy choices ,so it’s never an issue,as only healthy food on offer

I really dislike the idea that pudding is seen as a “treat”. Pudding/dessert is a normal part of a meal. Obviously, that does not mean sweets. I would not withhold pudding. We virtually always have dessert after meals. All my DC are young adults, eat well, are very slim and have no food issues,

It’s absolutely right to make mealtimes enjoyable. We never had pudding as part of our meal. Instead I concentrated on providing a healthy savoury meal. If someone was still hungry, after finishing their meal, fruit or yoghurt were on offer.

He makes her stay at the table until she's eaten 'enough', and if she doesn't then she can't have pudding. It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want

My parents used to do the same. I can vividly remember trying to hide food in the bin. I made sure I put something else on top so I wouldn’t get caught.

I was left at the table alone for what felt like hours. I remember crying silently because I didn’t want to get in trouble if they heard me.

In my house we have pudding every night. There are no conditions attached to it. We have a mix of healthy and unhealthy.

But one thing it isn’t is a reward or punishment.

You should never make a child eat more than they want. It creates bad eating habits in later life. The clear your plate mentality sticks with people and is a factor in weight gain.

I don't make pudding a thing. It's not offered every night. It's only offered if kids have finished and appear still hungry.

I woulndt offer pudding if they haven't eaten their food, but I woulndt use pudding as a bribe to make them finish food they don't want. If they don't eat their dinner then fine. If they are hungry later, offer the left over dinner or toast, nothing too exciting.

No. No. No. Pleae dont do this. Never make a child clear their plate or make a battleground of mealtimes. You will set them up with an eating disorder

Every parent thinks they know best, but the fact is, it’s also about the precedent and messages you send. If your child has grown up with someone else making decisions for them about their own appetite, they don’t just magically become self-aware eaters when they hit a certain age

Absolutely this. Honestly, if my child just refused dinner entirely I wouldn’t encourage them at all. I’d literally just say, ‘ok no problem’ and take it away. (I’d save for later if they asked for it which they inevitably will).

Unless your child is underweight or has additional needs then why worry? I hungry child will eat provided they are not forced or blackmailed or there is some emotional response to food. We parents put an enormous amount of pressure on ourselves over getting children to eat when it’s just not necessary!

I wouldn't regularly offer pudding or more than a handful of fruit. Pudding would be occasional. However if a child didn't eat much and there was pudding available, having one wouldn't be dependent on the other.

I am a fussy eater and grew up being told to "clear it for pudding". It has NOT helped my appetite or portion control as an adult- and I've had to work hard at not feeling "entitled" to pudding. As a child I really felt I deserved my pudding after "duty eating" what I didn't want to eat at all, even if it actually probably filled me up so I shouldn't really have had pudding. No way would I have missed out on something I wanted for something I didn't. Not a healthy attitude for food.

We stopped all pudding for a while when crafty ds started refusing dinner and expecting pudding. He went through maybe 6 months of fussy eating and now eats much more normally again (obviously there are some things he refuses - he's 4). We have a special pudding on Sunday which he helps make, and sometimes a random pudding in the week, but he never knows until after dinner. It's all a game of control to him, so we let him have control of what he eats within the limits we set.

I have a great solution to this.

Serve a healthy pudding (eg piece of fruit and a little plain greek yoghurt) WITH the main course.

That way you stop having the battle of having to eat x before y and stop them fixating on pudding

You're serving nutritionally valid food - does it matter what order they eat it?

They won't overeat because they've stuffed themselves with main, then wanted pudding on top.

I dont believe in forcing or coercing children into eating food they dont want. Surely we're meant to be teaching them to listen to their body and know when they've had enough. Daily pudding shouldn't be heavy or super unhealthy anyway so it shouldn't make a difference whether he has it or not. Some jelly or a yogurt isn't a substantial meal swap. And we shouldn't teach good food and bad food. You're making pudding a reward and dinner a chore if you do that.

I don’t agree with making them sit for ages, but I don’t have an issue with telling them they haven’t eaten enough when it’s clear they haven’t. My DD is almost 5 and has a piece of fruit for pudding each night, except on Saturday when it’s an ice cream or custard or something more exciting. Occasionally she has had a few mouthfuls or something she likes and then declares she’s full. We don’t force her to sit there and eat, but we have made it clear that she needs to eat a reasonable amount of her dinner. We don’t on the odd occasion that grandparents have filled her up with snacks and it seems realistic that she wouldn’t be hungry though! I think like most things in parenting there’s a balance to be found.

I don't pudding other than on special occasions. I agree not to offer a treat if dinner isn't eaten. I wouldn't make a big deal about dinner though, just put food out, and say this is all that is available, other than fruit and vegetables.

My children are always allowed unlimited fruit and vegetables. They are great eaters, because I cook healthy food, and don't offer alternatives. Judging by the complaints from other parents when the school started putting increased vegetables in their meals, this seems rare nowadays.

Mine don't have to eat anything they don't want to.
At the fussy stage the only rules were sit nicely at the table and don't talk about food you don't want to eat.
I encouraged them to serve themselves and then we'd just chat about anything but what they were or weren't eating.
If there was pudding they got it regardless of if they'd eaten all the main course or none of it.
Now they all eat most foods and will try new things happily.
It was hard to get DH on board as he grew up in a clean plate household. He and his siblings would often go straight to bed when they found out what was for dinner as that was the punishment.

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