Withholding pudding if child hasn't eaten 'enough'

[Toriathebadger]

I'm a bit torn about this. DS3 (4) is becoming fussy, I think it's just a phase as he's always been a good eater and has plenty of fruit and veg. Just lately he's hardly been eating his meal and says he's gone off a lot of the food he would usually eat. His dad (ex dp) expects me to withhold pudding if ds hasn't eaten 'enough'. He does it with his dd (from previous) who is a fussy eater. He makes her stay at the table until she's eaten 'enough', and if she doesn't then she can't have pudding. It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think there's a happy medium here, as I encourage ds to eat a bit more but ultimately if he's finished then I let him have pudding and don't make an issue out of it. Ex is horrified and thinks I'm ridiculous.

Who is being unreasonable? Either of us? Just different parenting styles?

Oh I have many bad memories of being forced to sit and eat cold food I didn’t enjoy by relatives and school. Gave me a lot of food aversions. Took years and years to even try new foods as an adult.
No puddings certainly, as I agree is sweets became a “reward” but my mum used to just make me things she knew I’d eat - or often, small snack plates with grapes and cold meats and yogurts.

Did not help at all being force fed.

"Forcing" a child to eat may make a chubby child in the long run. I have seen it happen to "good eaters" whereas the "naughty" one who eats only as much as is wanted, will probably change eating choices later and grow up the right size.

I agree with your ex. I have a fussy 5yo and no way does he get pudding if he hasn't eaten a sensible amount of dinner, and he wouldn't get supper at bedtime either.

I think it also depends on the child. DD1 is generally an enthusiastic eater, so if she says she’s full I wouldn’t question it. However DD2 left to her own devices would eat 3 bites of dinner & be asking for something else half an hour later. It’s not even that she doesn’t like the food, more that it doesn’t hold her attention and she’d rather be off doing something else. Or eating pudding. So she does get told to keep eating until she’s had a reasonable amount. This has got better as she’s got older, so I am now more likely to trust that she is full when she says she is.

My son is asd so it works a bit differently for us. He will eat half his meal, then want his treat..then he happily finishes his main meal. I choose my battles wisely and it works for us.

I wouldn’t be offering pudding at all. We always had pudding once a week. Fruit and yoghurt was given as part of a cold lunch or a mid morning/afternoon snack.

When I was little, I ate absolutely everything —but I hated butter beans. I loved cooked spinach, asparagus, Brussels sprouts... things that my brother and sister hated. Tomatoes, squash, etc, loved them.
Mum still made me sit at the table for hours until I finished them. I gagged & never touched them.
Dad would walk by and gather them up into my (paper) napkin and hide them in the trash or toss them in the fire. He was my savior & hero.
It was cruel & unusual punishment and unnecessary for a child who ate literally everything else.
I’d not reward my picky-eater with dessert, however. Because that’s what you’re doing — rewarding him for eating a crappy meal.

Ex is BU.

Please don’t make your DS sit at the table alone, trying to finish food they don’t want. I’m in my fifties now and I still clearly remember my DF making me do this on Sundays as I didn’t like roast dinners and fatty meat. I’d sit alone, crying for over an hour, moving my cold potatoes around the plate and trying to swallow the meat, until he got fed up with my crying. It affected me badly, I dreaded Sundays and it put me off roast meat. I’m a vegetarian now, but I do still remember it clearly and I shudder at the memory.

I'd just go with the flow OP, my SIL made a big thing deal if her kids didn't eat their dinner and made them sit at the table. It became a power struggle and they are really fussy eaters now when it didn't start out that way. Suggest reducing down the evenings you give pudding or mix it up a bit. We tend not to give ours pudding on set days or times so they don't really associate it as an after dinner treat if that makes sense.

Oh my gosh, you are setting yourself up here. I was fussiest eater in world as a child. My dear mum let me do whatever, tomato sarnies, plate of peas, were just two of my weird dinners. I will now eat anything. Grew to 5ft 9in as well, btw! My youngest was the same. Wouldn’t eat anything green, even had to peel cucumber. He also now as an adult, eats anything and is 6ft 1in.
Obvs, don’t feed child on just sweet food. But be led by them with healthy choices as to what they actually feel like eating. They can be quite smart at choosing the right option. And defo don’t make meals a battle.

Ds helped me write a shopping list yesterday and enjoyed doing some of the writing (sosijs ) and I let him serve himself at dinner time tonight, which he preferred. He ate a decent amount and had an orange after. No stress, no drama. I need to not let the ex get to me, I know his approach is wrong. I do think I've got stuck in a rut though with making the same old things for dinner, maybe Ds has got a bit bored so I'm going to make sure there's more variety. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and thoughts, it's been so useful.

It’s a normal
Phase
I would not withhold pudding
As this creates the thought that nice foods are treats or rewards ..
Remember it’s up to you what pudding is !!!
One thing that helps is getting him involved in prepping choosing food and making it

Glad the OP found a solution that worked.

I found my fusspots eat much better when they serve themselves or are asked whether they would like one potato or two, etc when I dish up.

We allow ours free access to the fruit bowl, they don’t like rich puddings or ice cream, but they have chocolate for treats. And after their meal, if they claim hunger they can have wholemeal toast or a banana.

I think a lot of kids (including mine) expect ‘pudding’ (ie to follow the savoury main, ne it fruit/yogurt a small biscuit or something nicer) — but not unreasonably when you consider that weaning advice when mine were little (I think still is) to offer a main and ‘pudding’, something like bananas and yogurt or baby custard. School dinners include a dessert option. Standard packed lunch fare suggested by schools and preschools might be a sandwich, cucumbers & hummus and a banana. There is a sweet element. This is different to eating sticky toffee pudding and clotted cream 7 days a week.

Whatever you do be relaxed about it!

Don't force them to eat, but no dinner no pud. If hungry later, reheat it.

If we have a pudding, I usually serve it away from the main meal so it’s not linked to that. With no expectation of something to follow, the child will eat until full. I also don’t think it’s a great habit got the future to have to eat something sweet after every meal.

This probably an unpopular opinion on here but.......

As someone with a dh who has some major food issues still at 30 because of being forced to eat food as a child my first thought is please do not turn meal times into a war zone, it does not bode well. My in laws are very much 'sit there until your plate is clear or you are sick'.

We have 4 children. 3 are adults and all have their moments for being food weird. The girls especially (hormone driven) and a 4 year old. The little one can be incredibly fickle if she is over hungry or over tired.

But I will not turn our family meal time into a battle of wills so we negotiate. She won't eat ready made fajitas or burritos for example, so we give her all the bits and let her make her own up. A lot if it with ours is about being independent and making her own choices. She eats a huge variety of foods, is fit, a sensible weight and healthy so I don't see the point in stressing over it.

As long as she eats halfish then it's fine, she can have pudding which could be anything from a bowl of fruit to a yogurt to an ice cream. 90% of the time she'll make herself a fruit salad by bringing her fruit to the table, cutting it up and chucking it in a bowl under supervision.

Find a middle ground that suits you in your house and ask your ex to support it. Meal times are supposed to be social events, not a battle ground

Hi OP

I haven’t read the entire thread, but I wanted to say that fussiness is completely normal. DC may be trying to push boundaries at this age too.

Maybe skip pudding out a couple of days a week. Don’t let DC expect pudding after every meal as it creates the idea that they want to save room for sweet treats.

If you don’t think they’ve had enough, then bargain for 2 more mouthfuls etc. My dd is doing this a lot, but I’m super conscious about creating food issues in later life. No one should leave the table until the last person has finished, so definitely don’t leave them to eat on their own. From experience, this is very negative for children.

If it’s new food, my rule is that they don’t have to eat it, but they ALWAYS have to try it. You need to encourage a love of food so they see it as an adventure, rather than a punishment to eat all the good stuff, and not see sweet treats as a reward.

I would also try and balance your approach with DP. If you can’t agree, then make it a special meal time for when DC is with you, and an equally special meal time for when he is with DP. For example, my DP lets ours have fizzy drinks and junk food. I am majorly against this, so the deal is that if I’m out one night, it’s a special night in with DP that they get to lounge about with pizza. Then when DP is out, DC and I cook dinner together and they get to pick what we have, so it’s a fun experience, where they eat absolutely everything, as they helped choose and make it. Being involved with cooking seems to really engage them to eat it as they are super proud, and the focus is on the main, not treats.

It sounds like you’re really conscientious, so go with your gut on this. If you don’t want to do the same as DP, then choose your own style and stick with it. Try not to stress about it though. DC will be fine so long as he has a balanced diet between the two of you. This will create the happy medium you’re looking for, and no need to start an argument with DP over it. Respect his approach, and do what works for you x

I wouldn’t force my child to eat her main course, just encourage her to have a bit more if it looks barely touched. She is allowed to have puddings regardless. I don’t associate her not eating with being naughty. If she doesn’t feel like something one day, so be it.

We have 4 children. 3 are adults and all have their moments for being food weird. The girls especially (hormone driven) and a 4 year old

How do hormones make someone “food weird”?

Apart from needing to eat everything in sight for a day or two mid cycle, but that’s not being weird?

@ancientgran

Obviously yes. Which is why I said we don't feed the children things they don't like. But when every time they are 'too full' only when it comes to vegetables it becomes pretty obvious. Can't you "hide" them? I used to get a fussy eater to have loads of veg in things like a chilli. I have a GS who doesn't like cooked veg but he will eat things like carrots, celery, peas if they are raw so we just serve them raw.

Ours would pick these out of a chilli if we did this.

If I ever put something like onion or pepper or whatever in Bolognese for example, the bowl ends up with all the veg sat at the bottom at the end of the meal. They are sneaky with it 😂 I need to hide it better.

Please take a step back, this sort of behaviour makes for a very unhealthy relationship with food for your child. How can anyone quantify someone else’s appetite?
Children’s appetites are varied and changeable. I would really encourage you to read Ellyn Satters work on the subject.
I wouldn’t like my food intake to be controlled by someone else, perhaps your son is displaying some quite age appropriate behaviour around autonomy?
Parent provides food child decides how much and what to eat.
It’s really liberating as a parent and basically diffuses all meal time woes with your child.
I feel so sorry for that little girl, he’s proving fertile ground for an eating disorder.
Good luck with it, parenting is hard work

My son stopped eating at 10 months. No apparent reason other than he could see it upset me. So I hid my anx.
I gave him fruit at every meal. No bread or potatoes to fill him up. Vegetables disguised in soups, sauces etc. Lots of protein.
Never said no to sweets but only 4 chocolate buttons a day. No other sweets in the house.
At 5 yrs we lived in France for a while. Tantrums regarding lack of chedder & baked beans. I told him he would have to starve.
He's now over 6 foot, healthy & has a great pallette.
He has grown up preferring fruit to sweets / chocolate.
If I had to give any advice it would be to ignore it in the eyes of your child. Behind the scenes paddle like crazy.

@MrsFrTedCrilly

Please take a step back, this sort of behaviour makes for a very unhealthy relationship with food for your child. How can anyone quantify someone else’s appetite? Children’s appetites are varied and changeable. I would really encourage you to read Ellyn Satters work on the subject. I wouldn’t like my food intake to be controlled by someone else, perhaps your son is displaying some quite age appropriate behaviour around autonomy? Parent provides food child decides how much and what to eat. It’s really liberating as a parent and basically diffuses all meal time woes with your child. I feel so sorry for that little girl, he’s proving fertile ground for an eating disorder. Good luck with it, parenting is hard work

Thanks for the Ellyn Satter recommendation, I've been doing some reading, very interesting.