To think that there must be very few people who voted to leave the EU and thought we’d be in this position now

[Butterflyfluff]

No deal deadline is tomorrow and Johnson is now spinning that as the best jolly jape ever

That’s a far cry from his referendum and subsequent promises of getting the best deal ever

Are there many leavers who actually wanted and thought we’d end up with no deal?

I do find it utterly depressing that the argument for leaving hasn’t progressed beyond rhetoric whilst it’s become abundantly clear the downsides are enormous

Never thought for one moment it would be anything other than it is. It was always going to be going to the wire if there was going to be a deal.

YABU to assume that leavers have sufficient brain cells to think anything.

To all those saying that Leavers always wanted No Deal, I suggest you go back and look at the Brexit board 4 years ago - plenty of talk of a Norway style deal / staying in the EEA.

I’m a leave voter. Knuckle dragging. Thick as pork. Northern.

Disappointed in how badly Brexit has been handled but hate the EU with a passion.

Common market yes.
United States of Europe no.

To be fair people did have the opportunity to stop Brexit at the last Election (by voting LibDem just once), but overwhelmingly decided to proceed with it. Let's hope they're happy.

Oh there were some. They bankrolled the leave campaigns. They will make a lot of money from no deal, many of them have already made a lot of money from brexit.

“ i voted to leave, but expected there to be a deal.

I think if teh gov and everyone hadn't spent so long arguing with the result and actually started negotiations we would be in a much better position”

And there is it. Of course it’s the people who didn’t want to leaves fault. It couldn’t possibly be due to those who naively voted in favour of this utter shit show. Of course it was always going to go this way. There was nothing to indicate the EU would ever go along with our demands.

Common market yes.
United States of Europe no.

How about a united states of Europe as a neighbour with an antagonistic trading relationship?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55279468

Brexit, just brings more and more great news.

“lifesnotaspectatorsport
@ahola There is a deal on offer. The U.K. government doesn't want to agree to it. Hardly a case of the EU punishing us??

If the UK govt aren't agreeing to it, don't you think that's because it's not favourable to them, ergo UK being punished by the EU?”

But why would you expect the EU to give us a favourable deal? It’s not about punishing us surely, it’s about getting the best deal possible for the EU member states. We’ve told the EU we don’t want what they stand for...except all the good stuff that works for us. Madness to expect they would let us walk away on that basis.

honestly, the leavers on mn and in my rl didnt give a thought about it after the ref- so i doubt they do now-
they just chanted 'out means out' 'we won get over it' 'brexit means brexit' thats ALL they wanted.
are most brexiteers bothered by no deal? nope- they do not give a shit.

and they dont think the eu falling apart is maybe, you know, a bad thing, they love it, absolutely rubbing their hands at it- conflict in europe? Bring. it. on.

the idea that the eu was about working together to avoid another war and that might be a good idea has gone straight over their heads.

@ahola The deal on offer is free, unrestricted tariff-free, quota-free trade in goods with 27 countries (representing 43% of our exports). In return we are asked to make some concessions on fish - which I read somewhere turns over less money than Harrods - and agree not to undermine EU businesses by diverging on standards. It seems pretty reasonable to me. It's certainly not punishment. BoJo and his cabinet of fools may feel it's not worth the theoretical freedom to do whatever they want - that illusory sovereignty - but that doesn't make it unreasonable. I'm not sure why you think they should go further than that when we have left the EU and will not be contributing anything in future. Can you tell me why they should??

Britain believing the fiction that the world revolves around it.

Everything was all marvellous before. It will be wonderful soon! You just need to believe hard enough. If it's not, it's your fault for not doing so.

@whatshalliget the undemocratic ways of the EU are pretty legendary! - no audited accounts, EU commissioners are unelected, as is the leader

The PM of the UK is not chosen by the electorate and we have the unelected House of Lords. In context, your criticisms of the EU are beyond imbecilic.

oh yeah, the 'all need to pull together now' brexiteers.
ask them how - they wont say!
( im guessing it means - don't complain that we've fucked you over)

Lifeisnotaspectatorsport
Diminished status: yes, we're still in NATO and UNSC but those two organisations are respectively defensive rather than proactive and crippled by Russia and China vetoes. Since when have Russia and China been able to veto anything NATO does? They are neither Allies nor PfP nations. The NATO/Russia council was suspended in 2014 post Ukraine, and has met about 9 times since.

I would argue about NATO being defensive. I think the RAP and cyber programmes are as much proactive as anything else.

Don't kid yourself that we had much influence within the EU, even as one of the largest net contributors. We were always an outlier.

You may think the US is shaking its head, but if you talk to the Americans and explain that if the US had been asked to cede its sovereignty in NAFTA as much as we have had to in the EU, would they have done so; the answer is a resounding 'no'.

MrsMay had a choice - she could have refused the sequencing the EU wanted. There is nothing in the A50 procedures about how any withdrawal talks should proceed.

I know what the Five Eyes is; and useful is understating it. The only way the EU had access to that was via the UK.

We had an opt-out from ever closer union and were not without allies within the EU on that point. There have been buzzes around the bazaars in Brussels about a twin track EU for a long while (certainly for all the 13 years I lived in Brussels). Strange that the non EZ countries are now being pressured into accepting the Euro. Had we wanted that, we could have dropped into the EEA - we didn't. I think we are better as a third country, and not like Switzerland, who seem to be fighting off EU regulations fairly regularly at present.

Moving to the EU - well, depends on what basis you will be there. Certain professions will have no problems, as there are specific arrangements for them. I've done it twice now. Moving there was easier than leaving - we are still trying to disentangle ourselves from the last bits of banking and bureaucracy 12 months on from leaving.

As for bureaucracy and wastage come on. If our Parliament upped sticks every month and moved lock stock and barrel to Carlisle or Truro, there would be such an outcry about pollution, waste of money, expenses, etc etc; yet you all gloss over the caravan to Strasbourg every month. The EU is a gravy train for those who manage to clamber aboard it, and they do very nicely out of it thank you very much.

The deal on offer is free, unrestricted tariff-free, quota-free trade in goods with 27 countries (representing 43% of our exports). In return we are asked to make some concessions on fish - which I read somewhere turns over less money than Harrods - and agree not to undermine EU businesses by diverging on standards.

No, we would tied to dynamic alignment, and ECJ oversight. It wouldn''t be so bad if that were only for businesses that did export, but why should UK businesses that don't trade with the EU, or that don't export, have to abide by those rules?

The people I know who voted Leave was because she hated what the EU did to farming and all the limits imposed. Another one wanted less EU control in how we ran our country and a third voted to restrict immigration. Contrary to what some people think, these people gave valid reasons (in their opinion) for their decisions (and democracy allows this). However, I expect that non of them expected the situation we are in today.

To be fair when people voted leave it wasn't vote leave and get a deal
The choice was remain and leave no talk of leave and a deal just the two options
Funny how lots of remainers know exactly why people voted leave and what they expected , lots prob wanted just this as a deal
Would always involve giving something that some might not be happy with.
Whatever now it can't be changed we have to just get on with it

well the leave campaign said theyd be the easiest deals in history, first in the queue millions for the nhs or remain and be flooded with turks- so did the majority of leave voters believe all those lies or did they know they were lying and thought, yeah, but we dont care about your lies?

@thegcatsmother im sure you have more substance in a lot of what you posted than many who voted remain on here
Not all remainers voted with eyes wide open either
Many from both sides relied on newspaper's or places like this to make a decision as people write something and its convincing
If it was a real easy decision for people to make then I don't think people looked at both sides and did there own research as there was good and bad reasons to either remain or leave

@onlythepianoplayer really everyone thinks we are an international laughing stock , you know everyone do you?
In my last job i worked with many eu countries and also us etc and that wasn't what most were saying.
Many didn't actually care one way or the other

@Europilgrim how could we decide what direction exactly the eu goes in , we had one vote of more of others agree thats it