Smacking a child on the hand

[Warzone100]

I've name changed because I don't want this following me around mumsnet.

My much loved three year old is aggressive, he attacks me, DH and his 20 month old sister. It's important I include this info for context, he has autism. He's only semi verbal but has a reasonable level of understanding.

When he does attack he is capable of inflicting significant harm. He has bitten DD leaving deep marks, headbutted her, shoved her into the corners of furniture, thrown things at her head. You name it he has done it. As a result of all of this, DD has conditioned herself to run to me or DH as soon as DS becomes agitated as she knows she'll be the first in the firing line. Me and DH get it too but our main concern is DD getting hurt and it's just not possible to keep them away from one another at home.

Aside attacking others he smashes up the house. I've had to use endless polyfiller on the walls where he has thrown things, he has smashed countless plates and cups, he has pushed my television off the unit and broke that, smashed up his tablet device that my late father bought for him. He has even smashed a glass candle holder on DH's head causing him to bleed.

Despite my best efforts I cannot curb the behaviour, this is because he has so many triggers you couldn't possibly pre empt an outburst to prevent one. For example: if his tower of blocks falls down or his tablet runs out of battery, if it's time to get out of the bath, if he's told "no" to anything at all.

I have tried all of the traditional forms of meltdown management such as creating a safe space, sensory lighting, calm down music, soothing him, giving him some space, positive reinforcement and ignoring negative behaviour, plenty of 1-1 time with either me or DH. We have tried everything reasonably possible to help and support him and it's breaking my heart, the older he gets the worse it becomes. If he continues this way then by the age of 10 he's going to have put one of us in hospital.

This evening after him pinching DD and twisting her skin so hard she had an instant bruise, trying to bite her (i got between them first) charging at her ready to headbutt her (all because his toys fell off the table) I'm ashamed to say I momentarily considered smacking him on the hand with a firm "no! we do not hit"

It was my hope, in the moment, that it would shock him and be a deterrent the next time he goes to attack.

I didn't do it, but came very close.

We tell him all the time not to hit and to use kind hands but it doesn't make any difference, still we persevere.

I'm not a cruel parent and I've never laid a finger on either of my children, DS was our rainbow baby and is so, so loved. I'm just incredibly overwhelmed and feeling hopeless and scared for not only DD's future but his. We are treading on egg shells every day so that we (mainly DD) doesn't get attacked or our property smashed. He's three for goodness sake.

If there is help to be had then we don't get any, he was diagnosed in October and O.T waiting lists are at least 12 months long.

Would I have been a bad parent if I did smack him on the hand the next time he does it? I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard people say that this generation are unruly because they have no discipline, I've always rubbished the implication that children need to be spanked to be taught how to behave but now I just don't know. nothing is helping and he's getting worse.

@MaxNormal

I've just seen your update OP. Your first, urgent priority is that you need to ensure that your little one isn't geting hurt. I've known in real life, and read on here, the major damage it does when a girl is repeatedly assaulted by an older brother and doesn't have safety in their own home. It is really damaging.

Yes there's a reason why your son acts as he does, but that will be no comfort to your baby and won't make her hurt and fear any less.

this is my concern too. how is it fair that her early life, so indicative of life-long, is being ruined. how much trauma must she endure. and real risk. if it was an adult doing this to her, something would be done. i'm not saying there is an easy answer, nor that OP is at fault. but the little girl's human rights are being shredded. if i was her i might want to be adopted.

she needs a place of safety.
she does not have it where she is.

@Warzone100

Just to make crystal clear to the PP who mentioned it being illegal, I was referring to a light smack with a firm "no"

I would never hurt him so long as I live.

Any type of hitting/ Smacking is illegal however bad it would make you feel This is illegal in several countries Because it is Abuse in any light or heavy form Seek help because of you smack/ hit your child you are saying physical punishment is Ok. I would imagine many parents who suffer with these problems seek out how to cope and deal with it not asking if a sly smack would get away with it. Seriously get a grip

timeforanewstart
How did we all turn out normal

Did we though?

Many people who wer smacked as a child have "turned out" viewing violence as a part of communication with children- and are smackers themselves.
I was smacked as a child but felt strongly that it was wrong, so made a conscious decision never to smack my own children.
I have never hit my kids, but there have been times when that has been hard. I have felt the urge to give my kids a " tap" ( how I hate that word) when they have been pushing my buttons,
I am aware that even the urge that I have felt was created within me because my mother hit me as punishment.
My children are adults now, and have been raised without violence.
I have broken the cycle.

@speakout

*timeforanewstart How did we all turn out normal*

Did we though?

Many people who wer smacked as a child have "turned out" viewing violence as a part of communication with children- and are smackers themselves.
I was smacked as a child but felt strongly that it was wrong, so made a conscious decision never to smack my own children.
I have never hit my kids, but there have been times when that has been hard. I have felt the urge to give my kids a " tap" ( how I hate that word) when they have been pushing my buttons,
I am aware that even the urge that I have felt was created within me because my mother hit me as punishment.
My children are adults now, and have been raised without violence.
I have broken the cycle.

Read up, that comment wasn't even meant for this thread.

Not read all the replies but does he have a safe space? My daughter is autistic and although she has become calmer in the last year or so between 7 and 8 we had a rough time.
She liked a small spare which was hers so would crawl under the table which had a long table cloth on and hide. This was her safe space. Obviously a table isn't a good idea if he'd hurt himself and he's probably a bit young to know when he's getting overwhelmed but a safe space can really help ime.
The other thing was to hug from behind during a meltdown. So holding her arms and hugging from behind so she couldn't hit or kick seemed to work.
It's hard to know but would your son understand the bricks going away because he threw them? Same with his tablet? I don't mean would he get angry about it but would he make the connection? When he starts playing and you say "if you get sad and throw the bricks then they go away until x time" would he understand that?
It's really hard and I've spent many evenings crying over my daughter but don't beat yourself up because you thought about hitting him. You didn't do it and sometimes our children push us to the limit.

DD most certainly would not want to be adopted thanks, and to the poster telling me to get a grip why don't you read the rest of my comments before contributing something so pointless.

I haven't hit him and won't.

I bet you there isn't one parent alive who hasn't at some point been pushed to the limit and had the fleeting thought, however much some on MN would protest otherwise.

(((Warzone))) of course they wouldn't. That was a horrible thing to say. Well donenon chasing things up.

I really think you should post again for support in the special needs area.

Goodness me, all the nasties crawl out at night.

You’re doing a good job OP, and anyone who has bothered to read all your posts can see that.

@zurala

Op if you want somewhere to get help and support, there's a lovely group on Facebook called Gentle Parenting for Autistic Children UK that you might like to join.

That's lovely advice.

OP, best of luck xx you sound like a lovely parent.

Where are so many posters getting the idea that it’s illegal to smack in the UK? The only country this has been made illegal is Scotland. I am no advocate for smacking and am extremely happy they’re talking about making it illegal in the rest of the UK as it takes away the grey area all together. But telling the OP it’s illegal and classed as assault to give her child a light smack on the hand is simply untrue.

Surely he has to know that his behaviour is wrong. Otherwise the very act of doing these things unchecked could be making him feel insecure. What about grabbing him and looking him determinedly in the eyes and saying “No, you don’t do that “. If he carries on put him in his room. Then check on him a few minutes later.

Also to add. I don’t think a smack on the hand is an assault and is probably what he needs.

HappydaysArehere

So it would be OK to smack an elderly person on the hand?

Hapoydays ...no he does not " know it is wrong "
He has autism

The usual ideas go out the window
It s a behaViour approach to Gently teach him what is appropriate and how to communicate his needs
Analysing ABC of behaviour
Giving different waya to say "i need somnething"
Adapting environment to make it less likely

Oh the irony.
Thinking about HITTING a child whilst reprimanding him about being allowed to HIT.

Ps. Seperate your kids at all times and protect your dd! And empty out his entire bedroom so that when you do put him in there he cant hurt himself whilst trying to trash the place.
And get some help online with forums about kids that are asd. Dont sit around waiting for the professionals and get some advice from the experts (parents with asd kids)

Happydays. No no no no no
Grabbing a child with autism will just send their (already overalert) sensors on overdrive into further panic.
Forcibly looking in the eyes of someone with autism is often terrifying too.

Please don't.

I wish people wouldn't post such unhelpful "helpful" advice 🙄😔.

Check out Middletown autism webpage it's an Irish centre for autism . They provide a lot of training to both parents and professionals in all areas. They are currently running online webinars which are free to sign up to and you can ask questions etc through a chat function at the end. They have some good ideas. I think you can also email them and they can give more specific ideas and support to help.
Have you tried any visual symbols for him? These might be useful if he has limited communication. I would say a social story would be good too if you can get one tailored to his triggers - I know you said there are a lot but maybe if you can get one for blocks falling over and one for tablet running out - give him the options of how he can fix it e.g. build them up again, ask for help to charge tablet .
One child I have worked with used to hit someone everytime they cried - it took a good month of us saying crying needs a hug not hurt but he's now got it 90% of the time. He will now run and hug this child even when they aren't crying. Still needs very close supervision as like you say it can go from a hug to hitting them within a split second but it is an improvement .
Do you have an indoor trampoline or exercise ball or anything? This could possibly help too as a way for him to regulate and get out his frustrations.

We found handdrawn pictures of what would happen that day with bluetack on the back really helped.

So picture for getting dressed, one for breakfast, one for the park, one for colouring, one for lunch. We stuck it on the fridge and kept refering to it and it really helped for themnto know where they were in the day.

Even at 11 we had a similar list of pictures for the "morning routine". This is a bright grammar school child... but the simplicity and visual reminder made them feel safe, that they knew what was happening and the order.

We discoverd late nights as a treat didnt help. As much as possible we followed the same morning and evening routine.

Another pointer is ti avoid stringing demands together. "Get ready to go out" is too big. Even "get coat and shoes on and clean teeth " can be too much if they have trouble processing. Being able to say"whats next on the list?" And to do that makes control feel easier.

The other thing that might help is that many many families when they have a baby see the bigger child as huge and so grown up, as they are in comparison. Yet he's still little and only 3. I knew about this and tried not to do it but even now repeatedly I look at my younger child at 5 and 7...and think how little she is, yet one my eldest was that age I thought she was so big! It can help manage our expectations and remember he's still a small child learning about how the world works.

i'm still concerned about the younger child.
if she could ring childline, what would she be saying ?

Alex the younger child is 20 months
She doesnt know what is and isnt usual
She isnt going to call childline yet
Op is going to get help long before the 20 month old calls

@OrangeGinLemonFanta

It really won't work. Your child is, even more than a neurological 3yo, utterly incapable of self regulation and empathy, especially when overwhelmed. Literally all this will do will upset him further and undermine your 'no hitting' message. God knows I understand the impulse - I have a speech disordered, hot tempered 3yo myself and he can be extremely hard work, so I'm sure you're at your wits end but I promise it won't help.

Basically exactly this. If he's melting down he simply isn't in control. He is frustrated and doesn't have the executive function to control it. I also agree with the sympathy and acknowledgement that it's just incredibly difficult what you're going through.

@speakout

HappydaysArehere

So it would be OK to smack an elderly person on the hand?

You wouldn't need to though would you?

If they were attacking your child, biting your husband's arse and wrecking your house, you'd have them arrested instead.

If they were attacking your child, biting your husband's arse and wrecking your house, you'd have them arrested instead.

If your dog did this would you hit it?

A tap on the hand is not assault. Please don't throw that reword around.

Also smacking is not illegal in the UK, only in scotland