Smacking a child on the hand

[Warzone100]

I've name changed because I don't want this following me around mumsnet.

My much loved three year old is aggressive, he attacks me, DH and his 20 month old sister. It's important I include this info for context, he has autism. He's only semi verbal but has a reasonable level of understanding.

When he does attack he is capable of inflicting significant harm. He has bitten DD leaving deep marks, headbutted her, shoved her into the corners of furniture, thrown things at her head. You name it he has done it. As a result of all of this, DD has conditioned herself to run to me or DH as soon as DS becomes agitated as she knows she'll be the first in the firing line. Me and DH get it too but our main concern is DD getting hurt and it's just not possible to keep them away from one another at home.

Aside attacking others he smashes up the house. I've had to use endless polyfiller on the walls where he has thrown things, he has smashed countless plates and cups, he has pushed my television off the unit and broke that, smashed up his tablet device that my late father bought for him. He has even smashed a glass candle holder on DH's head causing him to bleed.

Despite my best efforts I cannot curb the behaviour, this is because he has so many triggers you couldn't possibly pre empt an outburst to prevent one. For example: if his tower of blocks falls down or his tablet runs out of battery, if it's time to get out of the bath, if he's told "no" to anything at all.

I have tried all of the traditional forms of meltdown management such as creating a safe space, sensory lighting, calm down music, soothing him, giving him some space, positive reinforcement and ignoring negative behaviour, plenty of 1-1 time with either me or DH. We have tried everything reasonably possible to help and support him and it's breaking my heart, the older he gets the worse it becomes. If he continues this way then by the age of 10 he's going to have put one of us in hospital.

This evening after him pinching DD and twisting her skin so hard she had an instant bruise, trying to bite her (i got between them first) charging at her ready to headbutt her (all because his toys fell off the table) I'm ashamed to say I momentarily considered smacking him on the hand with a firm "no! we do not hit"

It was my hope, in the moment, that it would shock him and be a deterrent the next time he goes to attack.

I didn't do it, but came very close.

We tell him all the time not to hit and to use kind hands but it doesn't make any difference, still we persevere.

I'm not a cruel parent and I've never laid a finger on either of my children, DS was our rainbow baby and is so, so loved. I'm just incredibly overwhelmed and feeling hopeless and scared for not only DD's future but his. We are treading on egg shells every day so that we (mainly DD) doesn't get attacked or our property smashed. He's three for goodness sake.

If there is help to be had then we don't get any, he was diagnosed in October and O.T waiting lists are at least 12 months long.

Would I have been a bad parent if I did smack him on the hand the next time he does it? I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard people say that this generation are unruly because they have no discipline, I've always rubbished the implication that children need to be spanked to be taught how to behave but now I just don't know. nothing is helping and he's getting worse.

Ds is what you might call seveere but by working on communication and structure aNd with behavioural approzch and asking for and getting respite care life gets better. A lot if the sensory issues got easier as he grew. And as he learned to communicate PECS then AAC
Your ds behaviour is communication.

Hitting a child to teach them not to hit.

Makes sense total sense.

It's not DD who triggers him most of the time, she's just the first person he'll go for if he's been triggered by anything at all.

Like today he went for her when his toys came off the table despite her being the other side of the room. He made a bee line for her.

Tell the nursery what is going on and ask advice. Ask for a home observation session.
Recreate structure at home
Use schedule boards.

I would certainly not judge you for smacking him on the hand as a signal to let go of his younger sibling/to prevent harm. Whilst I am against smacking generally, a smack/tap to the hand can signal a quick 'no' and may be kinder than other forms of 'punishment' such as time out. Restraining a child or carrying them might also cause more distress. However, I have very little experience of autism, so my concern would be whether it worked or would make things worse. So, I don't really have any advice other than I certainly wouldn't judge you if you did.

@Xmassprout

Hitting a child to teach them not to hit.

Makes sense total sense.

The thread has moved on.

I didn't hit him and I won't be doing.

I recognise the hypocrisy.

Ds didn't really speak until he was seven, he could label things particularly around his interests (numbers and letters) and would shout numbers that he attributed to things he wanted. Even now he finds it easier to text, email or write if there is something he needs to talk about. It's easier for him talking is much more harder work.

Ignore me if it's things you know or have tried, but with children with similar behaviours, some times different vestibular or proprioceptive activities can really help. There's lots of ideas online. These are normally the kind of activities that we would be recommended as a first port of call (I work with children who have sen). Things like heavy work, so children can feel the pull and push on their muscles can be very regulating. Some children may benefit from spinning or rolling on a gym ball etc. I remember one child loved the gym ball being rolled over them. And once we find things that the child likes and which are of benefit (which does take time) we plan to build these activities in regularly and particularly at high trigger times, where possible. Very often it gets to the stage where the child is able to self regulate and seeks out or carry's out the activity or toy etc themselves.

Is it possible to contact the nursery senco for some strategies? Even if they don't see the full extent, they're there to help.

You sound like a great parent by the way. You want what's best in a challenging situation. I've had times with my own children where I have to work to contain my anger and frustration. We're human.

I don't understand how hitting a child even gently can be seen as an appropriate punishment for a child who hurts people. How can you teach a child that hitting is bad by hitting them? It's illogical.

I don't think it would work. This level of aggression and destruction in so young a child needs professional help. You need to keep your other child safe.

Also, op I've often seen people recommend the sen topics on here where you might get some helpful advice.

Have you asked for a EHC needs assessment(supposing you are in England)? If your son doesn't display the same behaviour in nursery, are there strategies they use there that you could use at home? Is it because there is a rigid routine? Do they use visual clues or alternative communication strategies? It would be worth speaking to nursery to see if they can support you with implementing similar strategies at home.

@speakout

**It would be illegal in most of the UK to assault a child.

🤣🤣 Oh behave you numpty!

@ivfbeenbusy

To be honest in the situation you have described when I was a child I would have got a smacked arse not a hand. He's out of control and sorry to say sounds dangerous which at age 3 must be very hard to deal with OP and my heart goes out to you. I agree with you though that sometimes you do have to wonder if the lack of disciplining in this generation is breeding worse behaviour than if they had experienced the sort of discipline our generation or our parents generation had

I know plenty of children who have never been smacked who are very well behaved indeed. I really don't think this is an issue with generational punishment methods. This boy in particular has additional needs. That is why he is acting as he is

OP I am very against smacking as I genuinely think it goes against teaching children not to hit and to be kind. However I voted yanbu as I quite understand why you're feeling at a loose end and looking for options. I also do not think a light tap is a smack nor an assault. I would consider that - a light tap to indicate no - but nothing more.

This may possibly be for later on but a safe space for your Dd might be a good idea.

If she went in the padded playpen so you can then focus on keeping him safe?

Does he like to copy? Similar to social stories have you tried acting these things out for him?

So you build a tower block talk through how you feel about your block, then knock it over and talk through how that makes you feel and mime a safe reaction for him like stamping feet or roaring etc.

Do it a few times and invite him to join you in the reaction for your tower falling down. Maybe let him knock your tower down and then do the reaction together if he engages.

It sounds like he has a big feeling he's not sure what to do with, so showing and labeling that feeling and reaction over and over might work.

Then have your oh do the same with him and maybe even dd if she can and it wouldnt trigger him.

Listen, you’re coping in the best way you know how at the moment, which is doing the best you can

But please ignore the “it did me no harm, kids need discipline” brigade. They obviously have zero understanding of kids with ASD. I was smacked as a child (I have ASD) and it taught me nothing, it only escalated the meltdowns as it was a further sensory overload I couldn’t cope with. I ended up suicidal as a pre teen because of incidents like that.

In the kindest way, there are some good books on the psychology of autism which may be helpful to you, because it doesn’t sound like you understand the psychology/sensory processing behind it. I appreciate it must be extremely tough for you though.

I appreciate your point about the playpen however if your son has his own bedroom, I think it might be helpful to “proof” it, I.e. high door handles and no sharp edges or things he might bang his head off, and then at every meltdown remove him ASAP and let him calm down in there.

Im doing the incredible years programme and finding it great, even if its just to talk to other sen parents.

Back when my boys were younger. We pretty much had to strip the sitting room and the hall of anything that could be thrown or broken. All the doors had foam stoppers to prevent slamming. Lock and dog safety gate on kitchen door so they never went in that room. I could never leave them together unsupervised - sat right next to them basically. I carried younger with me or put baby in the kitchen in a travel cot with the gate locked on the door if i needed to deal with other child.

Try to remember his mental age is more of a 1 year old. Its tough. Could you turn his room into a safe space?

Not sure if it's allowed to post this here but, OP, please try

www.autismfamilies.co.uk/

This is not my website but I do know the person who runs it; she is amazing; she is offering support to families with autistic children and I think she is the person who can help you work out how to deal with this, and how to access the support you and your family need.

May I PM you @Warzone100 ?

Oh, OP. I cannot imagine the worry and frustration you go through on a daily basis.

I wouldn’t blame you, at all. You’ve reached the absolute end of your tether and you’re being torn between both your children.

This really sounds like he (and you) need more help and intervention. Have you been referred through cahms? Can the GP offer any support?

I think for your daughter’s safety you need to separate them as much as possible. Do you have two downstairs rooms? Can you convert a dining space etc? Can he have a calm zone with lots of soft toys/pillows that he can hit/smash/throw as much as he likes?

He may have the additional needs but I feel your DD needs to be the priority here. She does not deserve to be a punch bag her entire childhood. Can any family take him for a few hours to give you some special one on one time with her?

I really don’t think smacking your child is as bad as people make out, it happened to the vast majority of people commenting (including myself) and we are all ok!

Have you tried completely ignoring the bad behaviour but at the same time if he’s bad to DH/DD paying them lots of attention?

Also maybe a chart of e.g, doing 2 nice things for his sister a day (playing with her and her toys/taking the lead on a making home Christmas decoration), being very involved in his plan (like he is the one helping you) then a reward at the end e.g. a wee sweet for yous all?

What I would say is it’s probably nothing more than trying to get your attention which all children do! You’re not doing anything wrong, that’s just how children are if they admire a parent they want allllllll the attention xx