Smacking a child on the hand

[Warzone100]

I've name changed because I don't want this following me around mumsnet.

My much loved three year old is aggressive, he attacks me, DH and his 20 month old sister. It's important I include this info for context, he has autism. He's only semi verbal but has a reasonable level of understanding.

When he does attack he is capable of inflicting significant harm. He has bitten DD leaving deep marks, headbutted her, shoved her into the corners of furniture, thrown things at her head. You name it he has done it. As a result of all of this, DD has conditioned herself to run to me or DH as soon as DS becomes agitated as she knows she'll be the first in the firing line. Me and DH get it too but our main concern is DD getting hurt and it's just not possible to keep them away from one another at home.

Aside attacking others he smashes up the house. I've had to use endless polyfiller on the walls where he has thrown things, he has smashed countless plates and cups, he has pushed my television off the unit and broke that, smashed up his tablet device that my late father bought for him. He has even smashed a glass candle holder on DH's head causing him to bleed.

Despite my best efforts I cannot curb the behaviour, this is because he has so many triggers you couldn't possibly pre empt an outburst to prevent one. For example: if his tower of blocks falls down or his tablet runs out of battery, if it's time to get out of the bath, if he's told "no" to anything at all.

I have tried all of the traditional forms of meltdown management such as creating a safe space, sensory lighting, calm down music, soothing him, giving him some space, positive reinforcement and ignoring negative behaviour, plenty of 1-1 time with either me or DH. We have tried everything reasonably possible to help and support him and it's breaking my heart, the older he gets the worse it becomes. If he continues this way then by the age of 10 he's going to have put one of us in hospital.

This evening after him pinching DD and twisting her skin so hard she had an instant bruise, trying to bite her (i got between them first) charging at her ready to headbutt her (all because his toys fell off the table) I'm ashamed to say I momentarily considered smacking him on the hand with a firm "no! we do not hit"

It was my hope, in the moment, that it would shock him and be a deterrent the next time he goes to attack.

I didn't do it, but came very close.

We tell him all the time not to hit and to use kind hands but it doesn't make any difference, still we persevere.

I'm not a cruel parent and I've never laid a finger on either of my children, DS was our rainbow baby and is so, so loved. I'm just incredibly overwhelmed and feeling hopeless and scared for not only DD's future but his. We are treading on egg shells every day so that we (mainly DD) doesn't get attacked or our property smashed. He's three for goodness sake.

If there is help to be had then we don't get any, he was diagnosed in October and O.T waiting lists are at least 12 months long.

Would I have been a bad parent if I did smack him on the hand the next time he does it? I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard people say that this generation are unruly because they have no discipline, I've always rubbished the implication that children need to be spanked to be taught how to behave but now I just don't know. nothing is helping and he's getting worse.

The educational psychologist confirmed with nursery that they've received the referral and that will be prioritised when they begin taking on new cases in the new year.

Not to put all my eggs in one basket as I'm prepared to look into every avenue possible, but I'm praying that will be helpful and make a difference.

DS definitely needs specialist professional help, try as I might I just don't have the expertise or tools currently to help him, and believe me I'm trying so hard.

It does make me feel slightly weird that there's a lot of sympathy from posters for this boy but the fact that a baby is getting regularly attacked and injured in her own home doesn't seem to cause much concern.

A fixed room divider (like a wide baby gate across the room) can be very helpful to keep dc seperate while you supervise both, and I've seen it used in similar situations.

If that won't work, then you need another plan, because you need to safeguard both dc.

I agree that there may be triggers to violence that can be avoided - maybe offer sticklebricks for building rather than wooden blocks if them toppling is a trigger - but it will take time to work them out.

I am sure the ed psych will be able to help, and you could also look into other avenues at the same time. The help is there, and you are doing a great job.

Zero judgement from me, it is more that it won't work, to the best of my knowledge and experience.

Thank you all, I appreciate your support and advice.

Despite the portrayal in my OP of an unruly child DS does love his sister. He's happiest when they're chasing each other around or cuddled up in my bed watching mr tumbles. It's not all bad all of the time, but when it's bad Its awful, a bit like that old nursery rhyme!

I'm worried that DD is going to become an anxious child as it's to be expected in there circumstances. I really hope we can help him and by extension help DD.

I would also say OP that your child at 3 may bear no resemblance to your child when he’s 6/7/8.

My DS is nearly 8 with an HFA diagnosis.

At 3 we were so worried. Very limited diet, extreme sensory issues, stimming, utterly uninterested in making friends.

At 7 he is extremely popular, zero stimming, coping well in mainstream school, can cope with sensory surprises and a better diet.

He is still autistic and still needs support but the progress in the last 18 months has been astonishing.

Love him, give him firm boundaries, use all the resources open to you.

I hope things improve for you soon.

@MaxNormal really not helpful no one is saying that it's OK but you are clearly demonstrating my point of just judging without any understanding or wanting to understand of special needs children.

The way they experience the world is different, the intensity of emotions is different and as is often the case until they get full professional support and learn coping strategies it can cause outbursts and meltdowns. They don't wish to be violent.

I suggest that you educate yourself to have a better understanding rather than making unhelpful and frankly uneducated comments.

@Scottishskifun I have a fairly good understanding as I was one. What worked best were very solid and consistent boundaries.

I'm not for one moment saying OP should hit her son, but her detailing of what her daughter is going through makes for upsetting reading.

I have a SN who has cerebral palsy with autistic/bipolar traits. I had to get him committed for almost four months for violence towards me at 14. He had a stroke in the NICU and affected executive functioning of his brain and puberty made him violent. He's on three strong mood stabilizing Rx. He is non violent and back to himself. You might need to do something like we did due to his behavior (not the child)

You need external help, OP

@MaxNormal there’s no point discussing smacking on MN. Because everyone claims they don’t do such things.... I honestly think your parenting must be perfect if you have never smacked your child. Or posters take it to the extreme and start saying it’s abuse...

@MaxNormal yes that worked best for you but also your ability to be writing on MN shows your high functionality. You might have had the outburst when younger you might not. Every child is different.

Nobody has said its not upsetting but the OP is doing her best in very difficult currently unsupported situation. Your original comment only showed judgement.

@Scottishskifun I'm in my forties, I'm fine now, but I had massive behavioural issues as a little girl, and no proper ASD diagnosis then either, just ADHD.

My judgement was around the responses of the other posters, not towards OP who is clearly beside herself.

I should say, obviously I'm still autistic but my meltdowns clearly don't look like a three year olds any more.

Part of my worry (the violence being the main one) is that I just don't know where DS is on the spectrum.

I asked that question in October when he was given his diagnosis of ASD but was told that they don't use labels like high functioning or severe autism anymore. I totally understand why that is, but it has left me feeling fairly lost.

If I knew for certain it would get better it would make the hard times that bit easier to get through, similarly if I knew for sure that it would always be this way then I would need to reach a degree of acceptance that I'm always going to have a violent child.

DS has a half sibling (I hate that term) on his dad's side who also has autism. He is a different child now age 12 to the child he was when I first met him at 3, although they always knew he was high functioning as they were told as much. DSS was also never violent aside banging his own head.

I would give anything to know whether that will be the case with DS, the prospect of him never improving is terrifying. I don't say that for selfish reasons, I wouldn't change anything about him other than the aggression.

I've just seen a PP asked about his sleep, he's a good sleeper when he stays in bed. I have a nightly battle to have him stay in his room but once he's settled he sleeps through.

Further to my last post, some of you may be thinking it's no coincidence that DH has had two autistic children. He's likely on the spectrum himself.

Unfortunately that results in me feeling even less supported because DH as well intended as he is, doesn't have a clue how to handle it and finds himself getting quite overwhelmed himself.

I do already try gentle restraints as suggested above, I think it's a great suggestion overall.

It used to work slightly with DS when he was a little younger but it doesn't any more.

When he has calmed down and I let him go he throws himself straight on the floor and bangs his head.

Singing to him used to help, one particular song about busses. That was a god send but unfortunately no longer helps either.

I've read alot about weighted blankets and that will be something I buy him for Christmas. He has alot of sensory stuff (ear defenders, lights projector, tent, sensory balls etc) but no weighted blanket yet.

I don't suppose anybody on here is able to indicate (I know you can't diagnose) where he is on the spectrum? Long shot and probably a ridiculous question I know.

How are the professionals able to determined that? As whilst I know they don't use those terms anymore (severe/HF) they will know.. won't they?

You need to speak to ss children with disabilities team and ask about short breaks and respite services
You need to get onto autism specifuc esrly years programme
Ask NAS sndd early years services

What communucation does he have?
It s all about communication
Are you trying signing? PECS?

It can get better
Try get hik into autism nursery
And behaviour programne

@Warzone100 there are a couple of posters here who have it absolutely nailed. @AurorasGingerbreadHouse and @hiredandsqueak.

I have no doubt you love your DS but it seems you don't really understand or accept the reality of his challenges. You are trying to ascribe meaning or intent to behaviour that is so off target for ANY 3 year old.

Your expectations for him seem so unrealistic I wonder how much you have spoken to other families in a similar situation? If precessional help is not there yet, please make contact with family support groups. You need some help to understand your child's development and needs.

There are schools and nurseries with autism units
To work on behaviour and communucation
Abovd all communucation
Look at your local offer
Ask for behaviour support
If severe needs now you need to get assessed for short breaks could be soneone coming to help at home give him one to one

My son was diagnosed with moderate autism, learning difficulties speech delay and disorder and extreme challenging behaviour at three. It was really difficult and I worried for the future. He's an adult now and he bears no resemblance to the child at diagnosis. He's kind, thoughtful and gentle, he got eight GCSEs and 3 Btechs. He still has autism and appears to have normal speech but if you listen to him you realise that there is a lot of scripted speech and he tends to recite statistics around his interests rather than engage in conversation. He's quite vulnerable and has high anxiety but he is wonderful and I'm so proud of the young man he grew into.

In this situation I would write down the list of triggers and potential weapons and physically remove them from him. All the toys that could potentially trigger him go, baby proof the rooms he’s in, don’t give him a smashable tablet, potentially set up a routine that sends him to his room to play, and create a safe space for him in every room with things you know that calms him down.

Do you know what is it about DD that triggers him? If it’s the sound of her voice you could get him ear defenders and make him wear them. Make it clear he isn’t allowed to touch her and if he does you will do x y z (something specific) and follow through with it. Don’t leave DD alone with him and try rewarding her when he hits her and ignoring him - if you think he’d be able to learn from that.

He's already attending a nursery for disabled children but he doesn't exhibit even half of this behaviour there, he masks alot.

I hold my hands up to feeling completely out of my depth and not knowing what I'm doing half of the time, it's a minefield but I try my best. I'm never inpatient with him (contrary to my OP) and have tried endlessly to help and support him.

I do need help, I really do, I'm just not receiving any.

I follow some pages on Facebook by parents of autistic children and take on board tips from there but so far no improvement.

DS has some basic communication, he can tell me what he wants (drink/food/bed/something on the tv) but he's not able to communicate any further yet and when he does ask for something he only uses one or two words.

We're learning makaton and he knows some signs but doesn't use them to communicate, only copies when I do it.

One improvement that has come about recently is he will now sometimes run to me when he's upset, a few months ago he would never do that. Now, 3/10 times if he's angry and I hold my arms out he will charge into my embrace.