Smacking a child on the hand

[Warzone100]

I've name changed because I don't want this following me around mumsnet.

My much loved three year old is aggressive, he attacks me, DH and his 20 month old sister. It's important I include this info for context, he has autism. He's only semi verbal but has a reasonable level of understanding.

When he does attack he is capable of inflicting significant harm. He has bitten DD leaving deep marks, headbutted her, shoved her into the corners of furniture, thrown things at her head. You name it he has done it. As a result of all of this, DD has conditioned herself to run to me or DH as soon as DS becomes agitated as she knows she'll be the first in the firing line. Me and DH get it too but our main concern is DD getting hurt and it's just not possible to keep them away from one another at home.

Aside attacking others he smashes up the house. I've had to use endless polyfiller on the walls where he has thrown things, he has smashed countless plates and cups, he has pushed my television off the unit and broke that, smashed up his tablet device that my late father bought for him. He has even smashed a glass candle holder on DH's head causing him to bleed.

Despite my best efforts I cannot curb the behaviour, this is because he has so many triggers you couldn't possibly pre empt an outburst to prevent one. For example: if his tower of blocks falls down or his tablet runs out of battery, if it's time to get out of the bath, if he's told "no" to anything at all.

I have tried all of the traditional forms of meltdown management such as creating a safe space, sensory lighting, calm down music, soothing him, giving him some space, positive reinforcement and ignoring negative behaviour, plenty of 1-1 time with either me or DH. We have tried everything reasonably possible to help and support him and it's breaking my heart, the older he gets the worse it becomes. If he continues this way then by the age of 10 he's going to have put one of us in hospital.

This evening after him pinching DD and twisting her skin so hard she had an instant bruise, trying to bite her (i got between them first) charging at her ready to headbutt her (all because his toys fell off the table) I'm ashamed to say I momentarily considered smacking him on the hand with a firm "no! we do not hit"

It was my hope, in the moment, that it would shock him and be a deterrent the next time he goes to attack.

I didn't do it, but came very close.

We tell him all the time not to hit and to use kind hands but it doesn't make any difference, still we persevere.

I'm not a cruel parent and I've never laid a finger on either of my children, DS was our rainbow baby and is so, so loved. I'm just incredibly overwhelmed and feeling hopeless and scared for not only DD's future but his. We are treading on egg shells every day so that we (mainly DD) doesn't get attacked or our property smashed. He's three for goodness sake.

If there is help to be had then we don't get any, he was diagnosed in October and O.T waiting lists are at least 12 months long.

Would I have been a bad parent if I did smack him on the hand the next time he does it? I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard people say that this generation are unruly because they have no discipline, I've always rubbished the implication that children need to be spanked to be taught how to behave but now I just don't know. nothing is helping and he's getting worse.

I have messaged you, @Warzone100

Claire347
The ds is autistic with speech delay
He wont understand "play nicely with your sister"
Posotive reinfiorcememt needs to be immediate

Removing him from situation needs to be immediate

@ Embracelife (sorry not really sure how to tag people) I’m not at all saying you’re wrong.

However, every child is different, and trying to work with them as a team has in most cases (for me) has worked well, you never know until you try. If you try and it doesn’t work that’s fair enough it was only advice on something to try x

Also to include in the most respectful way if you don’t know the child personally to say the need removed immediately in my opinion may be a bit extreme (though in some situations this is 100% correct it’s not always) I would always start from the bottom and work your way up to a place you and your child are comfortable x

A couple of things we’ve found useful:

ABC charts: a way of tracking behaviour that helps you identify triggers and (often quite surprisingly) your own accidental negative reinforcement of a behaviour.

A = antecedent (what happened just before the incident)
B = behaviour
C = consequence (what happened right after the behaviour).

We’ve found doing it for a few days can be really illuminating. Sometimes we realised that our reaction to the behaviour was actually motivating our DD to do it again. Eg, hitting us got her sent to her room, getting her out of doing the boring thing we’d asked her to do in the first place.

Identifying whether she was headbanging because she was sensorily overwhelmed or because she wanted a reaction /
to get her own way about something.

If it was the former, we’d look for ways to calm her down. If it was the latter, we ignored it as much as possible. I know how awful that feels, believe me, but she hardly ever does it now. A couple of years ago headbanging was one of my biggest worries.

I don't post on here that often. However, I hope any history I do have will show that I'm not a troll. I feel the need to post this because I'm truly shocked at the number of posters on here that seem to support assaulting a child. Lightly smacking you say, as if this is okay. My darling poor mother is suffering from the early stages of dementia, which is challenging for me to say the least. I'm guessing the same posters who think it is 'cool' to assault a child, would support assaulting someone like my mother. Dress it up all you want, assault is assault. I would not hesitate to report anyone assaulting a child, pensioner or anyone else, if required. You should never hit anyone.

This reminds me of my eldest. I empathize completely. The screaming over minor things drove me to distraction. He got frustrated so easily but it was noise or change in something than annoyed him. Pick the bricks up off the floor looking at the bricks and say firmly "we put these on the table" Show minimal anxiety when you do this (he will be in an anxst state}. To get him out of bath or into car say "john when the bell goes you go to the car/ bath" a little bell that rings or alarm. he is not allowed the bell/alarm. give him an old set of keys as alternative to the bell as they would feel the same to touch and make sound. Aim to give him someting that he is loves not necessarily a toy it could be a lock without a key in it .....something different not toy like.....I used to use reverse psychology too...worked quite a bit.e.g "I know you wont play in the garden" or "you cant eat that fish"... for some reason it gave him a sense of control. let us know in the future how things go for him. consider minimizing large numbers of as they can be overwhelming in room.

@Baluchistan95

I don't post on here that often. However, I hope any history I do have will show that I'm not a troll. I feel the need to post this because I'm truly shocked at the number of posters on here that seem to support assaulting a child. Lightly smacking you say, as if this is okay. My darling poor mother is suffering from the early stages of dementia, which is challenging for me to say the least. I'm guessing the same posters who think it is 'cool' to assault a child, would support assaulting someone like my mother. Dress it up all you want, assault is assault. I would not hesitate to report anyone assaulting a child, pensioner or anyone else, if required. You should never hit anyone.

Totally extreme view. I bet your the same person complaining about the unruly youth of today! it makes you wonder...

Hunnihun2

With respect, you've lost me. On another note, I think you meant to say you're not your. If me thinking inflicting violence on a child is wrong means I have extreme views, then maybe you're (not your) right!!

I wouldn’t smack on the hand. It’s bony and likely to be injured. If I was going to smack I’d smack lightly on the bottom.

i think the children have to be separated. don't know how. the little girl is not yet 2 years, and already afeared in her own house. aside from actual injuries, that is going to adversely affect her mental development.
perhaps he needs to go to a specialist residential facility.
at the very least, i suggest you remove anything that can be used as a weapon, so no glass, maybe plastic/melamine plates.

Bite him back every time he bites. It was the only thing that stopped me at four. I was diagnosed with Asperger’s at 40, but no one knew what was wrong with me as a child. Yes, it feels mean, but it’s better he cries now than you cry over him when he is grown.

“Assaulting your 3yo is neither going to improve his behaviour or make you feel better”. It’s hardly assault, don’t be so dramatic.

I don’t have any experience, but I think you need to see your G.P about the behaviour. It’s not acceptable and you can’t let it carry on. Your child is going to get bigger and stronger and cause real damage at some point.

@Warzone100

It's not DD who triggers him most of the time, she's just the first person he'll go for if he's been triggered by anything at all.

Like today he went for her when his toys came off the table despite her being the other side of the room. He made a bee line for her.

Ask his nursery for advice on this. It seems like he’s developed a habit of blaming her and that needs to be nipped in the bud. Ordinarily I’d suggest immediate punishments like he is physically taken away from whatever room he’s in (kicking and screaming) every time he blames or attacks her but only do this if both you and DH can carry him.

I would also be encouraging her to fight back as she gets older - though running away is absolutely right right now.

One of my cousins boys has mild autism and he used to get triggered by his younger brother’s voice and basically go in and beat him up but he didn’t like to wear ear defenders and expected his little bro to keep quiet. But then when younger dc turned 4 he fought back big time and gave him a major walloping - both parents explained they wouldn’t intervene if it happened again because he shouldn’t be hitting and the violence stopped pretty quickly. He even began to wear his ear defenders so it didn’t happen again. But he was a lot older.

Totally extreme view. I bet your the same person complaining about the unruly youth of today!

Not extreme at all.
In my part of the UK you can be prosecuted for child assault- this includes smacking.

@AurorasGingerbreadHouse

I think some kids do respond to more physical explanations, especially when they don't have the words for their feelings.

During tantrums, holding them in a hug and telling them that you are here and that they are going to calm down now works for some children.

I also find holding their hand when they've hit works well. Unlike hitting a hand (which has seems contradictory) holding a hand and saying "we don't hit" gives a clearer message and is not violence in any way. If a child bites, hold your finger against their lips and say "we don't bite." If they pull hair, show them to stroke your hair instead. Etc. So sometimes they do need a physical response or physical guidance.

Often a child who is lashing out is communicating an unmet need. When my children behave aggressively, I try to cuddle them more, more tickles, kisses, even just brushing their hair for a bit longer. Obviously in a way which is age appropriate and not irritating them! But being there for them in a more tactile way.

Children have different needs to adults. They do need us to use our bodies to redirect them, move them out of harm or trouble, be a barrier when needs be, be an anchor and physically holding them, playing with them, cuddling them etc. To restrain them on occasion, too.

I think especially children with autism can struggle to communicate their needs. But that means having to do a bit of detective work. The child who pinches, might want to have a squeeze cuddle. the child who bites, might prefer blowing raspberries. The child who hits might need some high fives.

Thanks for this brilliant and thoughtful post.

It helps to think about things from the child's perspective and this is something I genuinely hadn't thought of.

OP, you don't need to feel bad. It sounds like you're coping amazingly with an impossible situation.

The PPs saying awful things about you based on a hypothetical light tap to the hand are clearly not stable. You've got a primal need to keep your DD and DS safe and in the moment you can't always be rational, particularly with burn out and no end in sight.

Please disregard the vile commenters making judgements about you. The fact that you didn't do it, that you questioned yourself, that you're exploring your options and that you're trying your best to balance the needs of both children is what matters.

IMO it would be understandable if you did tap him but I do agree with others it may exacerbate the problem.

You're a person too and you're entitled to make errors in judgement at times. Be kind to yourself and proud that you're giving your family life all your energy.

I despise the word "tap" when used to describe assaulting a child.

You need outside help to deal with his behaviour from professionals I think. I'm glad you've realised it would be ridiculous to hit your child to stop him from hitting.

We have this setup, it has become easier as our children have grown a bit. It still requires heavy 1:1 adult care to keep the social coms non violent.

We employ extra support during the school holidays and I cope briefly for periods after school/before school. The hardest days are ones without routine. Even with two adults it is still something that happens from time to time.

Honestly traditional “punishments” don’t work. Try it if you want but I’ll be amazed if it changes anything for you.

Something that’s helped I find, is keeping the anxiety low. By creating a day to day routine and then actually a timeline for the weekends which you change about to suit whatever is happening.

@MaxNormal

It does make me feel slightly weird that there's a lot of sympathy from posters for this boy but the fact that a baby is getting regularly attacked and injured in her own home doesn't seem to cause much concern.

Absolutely this. Poor baby. A parents job is to keep both children safe, not one at the expense of another. A very close friend of mine was in a situation very similar to yours, the children are now 14 and 12 and the 12 year old is extremely unhappy and resentful. They often talk about how they can’t wait to leave home and be away from being hurt, spat at and thrown across a room because the 14 year old is now bigger and stronger than both parents. Such a difficult job for the parents but I do feel the neuro typical child often gets pushed aside in these situations in order to ensure the other child’s needs are met.

I agree- it is such a challenging situation.

I don't do punishment. It has never been necessary in my home.

@speakout

I despise the word "tap" when used to describe assaulting a child.

Surely you can understand there is a gradation from touching through to assault?

If you yank a child back from running into the road is that assault?

If you push a child off another child when they're attacking them?

Children aren't rational and sometimes you have to touch them in an emergency in a way that on reflection wasn't the best course of action. It isn't assault.

You're being really over the top and unhelpful IMO.

The OP did not do it and it's a hypothetical situation which was engineered not out of anger but as a way to try to manage this behaviour. It isn't assault. You're undermining children who are abused by casting a loving mother in this light.

Where are you based, OP? Have you spoken to any charities?

I don't think that smacking him on the hand would be a good idea whatsoever OP, please don't do that. My job involves working with people with severe autism, and that kind of "discipline" just wouldn't have the same effect as it would have on a neurotypical child. It would more than likely just heighten his anxiety and make him more distressed, especially if his behaviour is a result of him experiencing sensory overload. It would also show him that his own behaviour is acceptable.

Head banging is a way of coping with overwhelming emotional distress, do you think your DS may struggle with his transitions from one activity to the next? That could just be one reason for his self harm.

A PP has mentioned Positive Behaviour Support, you should definitely look into this, it has excellent results. Is your son noise or touch sensitive? If he is semi verbal he is probably still really struggling to communicate his needs.

I do have so much sympathy for you, this sounds unbelievably difficult for your whole family and you must feel desperate you sound like a devoted mum. Be kind to yourself and ignore the people on here who have not tried to give you some helpful advice.

It’s a really tough situation and it’s impossible to predict the future. I’ve know ‘high’ functioning autistic adults who have debilitating difficulties with emotional regulation and ‘low’ function adults who have outgrown those behaviours at a young age.
How does your DD react? Does she ever shout no? Some people have had success with eversion therapy but it should be a last resort. The basic premise is to give your daughter something he hates, for example a balloon that bangs and every time he goes for her aggressively she does it. It won’t help his emotional regulation and it won’t stop him hurting you but it might stop him hurting her. It could also affect his bond with her and have other unintended consequences. People with Autism often have very well developed literal memories so can be easily traumatised. However, if it’s got to the point where he may end up in care or severely injuring your DD then I think it’s preferable to the trauma of that.

All the posters banging on about “assault” are missing the entire fucking point.