To think knocking back 3 bottles of wine per week represents alcohol abuse & an alcohol problem?

[Trying2Heal]

I honestly believe I have been abusing alcohol for 10 years or so. I don’t really find drinking fun or pleasurable, it feels more like taking medicine to relieve pain or something. I drink just enough to numb out feelings that I can’t cope with (from childhood trauma + an abusive relationship). Even while in therapy I continued drinking -- in fact I felt an even stronger urge to drink after any therapy session that involved discussing traumatic memories...

During the past 10 years I’ve consistently downed one bottle of wine 3 nights a week every week by myself. Sometimes I might do 2 bottles a week instead of 3. On an extremely bad week I’d do 4. I’ve reached out to my GP for help with quitting alcohol but he said the amount I am drinking is that not that extreme and is not escalating. I have been in therapy and the therapist said she didn’t consider me an alcoholic.

But how can drinking an entire bottle of wine by yourself and getting no pleasure from it yet feeling compelled to keep doing it NOT represent an alcohol problem?

During the past 10 years I’ve quit about 5 times — at one point I quit for 18 months and felt amazing. But each time I end up going back. After the 18 month teetotal stint I was up for an amazing lucrative new work contract and the CEOs had a thing for champagne. I told myself that I’d indulge in champagne with them just that day to build rapport, make sure I got the contract etc and then immediately switch back to teetotal. But that never happened. I clearly can’t just have a couple of drinks without then feeling compelled to slide back into the wine binges.

Anyone here have a similar drinking pattern? Do you drink to numb emotional pain rather than just for pleasure?

I see what you are saying and I agree with you - you are abusing alcohol to help you cope with trauma which of course is an unhelpful coping strategy.

A bit like another poster upthread my vice is food. I am probably 3 stone overweight at this stage. I am following the holistic psychologist on Instagram her stuff is making a lot of sense to me. I am hoping it is going to help me because a bit like that poster said speaking about trauma isn’t helping, I’ve done tears of that, more practical ways of focusing on self development and growth are what I need. So in my case it is definitely not burying the trauma but rather learning better coping strategies when it is triggered.

Tears = years

@LakieLady

Bloody hell, I've just got back from a hospital appointment and thought I'd pour myself a glass or two, but maybe I won't now!

I agree with some PPs that 3 bottles a week isn't a huge amount, but you plainly feel it's a problem and want to reduce/stop but can't.

I wonder if exploring the triggers that make you want a drink might help, and maybe if you can do that, you might be able to find different strategies to deal with those triggers instead of reaching for a drink? And why only 3 or 4 days a week? What's different about the days when you don't open a bottle? Do you feel compelled to drink the full bottle once you've opened it, or could you stop before you've finished it?

I'd say you're a long way short of being an alcoholic, but that your relationship with alcohol is less than healthy. But I'm not best placed to judge in some ways, having worked with clients who drink 2 bottles of vodka a day and had a friend who regularly drank 3 bottles of wine a night, three bottles a week doesn't seem like much to me!

And I think in most areas you can refer yourself to drug and alcohol services.

You asked why only 3 days a week. Because any more than that and I feel so ill that I'd barely be able to function. I used to attempt 4 nights a week (i.e. 4 bottles of wine per week) and I felt and looked so shockingly bad that it wasn't sustainable.

I do find it strange that the amount I drink/want to drink never seems to escalate. I thought as an addict you're supposed to build up tolerance and need higher and higher doses.

Maybe I am quite a strange case lol.

Your friends who drank 2 bottles of voddy per day/ 3 bottles of wine a night -- what sort of state were they in? Did they feel physically OK?
I'd be in pieces!!!!

You're drinking more than you should, but it's why you're drinking more than how much that is the problem. You're drinking to self medicate - you know that isn't healthy, so yes, you should stop. And if you can't stop at a glass or two (and don't even enjoy those) than yes, you should stop.

You have a lot of insight, so I hope you will be able to address the reasons why you use drink in this way - I think that's key to unlocking a solution and finding a happier future.

I'd say counselling/therapy are more your route out of this than AA, but on the other hand if you find the right group, you might find help there too.

You have insight and understanding; your situation is very far from desperate. You can turn this round. Good luck.

If I were staying over with a friend and we were both drinking wine, I'd expect us to get through at least 3 bottles between us over the course of a night. For drinks out, probably more like 5 bottles between 2, especially if including wine with a meal

OP, if you feel like shit after one glass, why do you carry on drinking?

This could be the post of somebody I know, who eventually concluded they were an alcoholic, and went cold turkey. If you think you have a problem, you have a problem.

The trouble in Britain is that heavy drinking is normalised, and so goes the train of thought ‘well so and so drinks x amount so I must be ok.” Normalising the situation is a common part of alcohol abuse.

At the end of the day, anyone who uses alcohol to cope, or unwind after a hard day, does have an alcohol problem. People shouldn’t need that to feel ok - healthy coping mechanisms are what are needed.

I hope you get the help you need. You are so strong admitting to yourself that you may have a problem. There are plenty of resources out there online to help, and YouTube etc. Well done x

@lulahloo

Hey, it doesn’t really matter about the amount, it’s how you feel about alcohol that matters. Do you wake up the next day with feelings of guilt / shame / self disgust at medicating with alcohol ? Do you tell yourself you’ll just have a glass and can’t only have one ? Do you look for excuses to have a few drinks (to celebrate/commiserate/relax). Essentially, if it is taking something from you, from your life, it’s not good. I had a similar pattern for years - not getting excessively drunk, but drinking quite a lot regularly, and maybe putting a bit of extra gin into my glass when we had a g and t, never saying no to another glass of wine. I used to wake it the night from the alcohol, have feelings of self hatred and disgust for drinking too much again, then would give up totally for a while and then start again. Before lock down I knew enough was enough and I just decided to stop. Now, if I fancy a drink I just “play it forward”, how will I feel tomorrow ? What will I feel in the night time when I wake up? Now, If I feel sad or low, I feel those feelings, I don’t want to smother them with alcohol any more, and because alcohol is such a depressant, it now seems those feelings are easier to bear. I feel like I’ve finally shaken free of its claws. Best of luck to you.

Do you wake up the next day with feelings of guilt / shame / self disgust at medicating with alcohol ?

Yes, I feel DISGUSTED with myself. I drank half a bottle on Tuesday night then had the other half of it on Wednesday night. This morning I woke up feeling absolutely disgusted and disappointed in myself. But from what I've read in this thread many people would not even bat an eyelid at having had a couple of glasses a night for two night's running..

Do you tell yourself you’ll just have a glass and can’t only have one ?
No I always intend to drink the entire bottle. I look at it is getting my medicine in. Joyless shit experience. Lately I've struggled to be able to finish a whole bottle and can manage only half a bottle. That may be a good sign actually!!!

Do you look for excuses to have a few drinks (to celebrate/commiserate/relax). -- Yup, recently got a new work contract that's a dream come true. I'd been off the booze for I think 2 weeks prior to hearing I'd got the contract. Soon as I got the good news I felt the need to go out and buy a bottle of champagne. I think I drank 2/3 of it right there and then. Felt like shit. But then thought "sod it, I am celebrating the best news ever."

But surely there are other ways to celebrate things or relax?!!!

I had a similar pattern for years - not getting excessively drunk, but drinking quite a lot regularly, and maybe putting a bit of extra gin into my glass when we had a g and t, never saying no to another glass of wine. I used to wake it the night from the alcohol, have feelings of self hatred and disgust for drinking too much again, then would give up totally for a while and then start again.

This is EXACTLY what I am doing....

Also there are local support groups (via video at the moment)

@MrsMiaWallis

If I were staying over with a friend and we were both drinking wine, I'd expect us to get through at least 3 bottles between us over the course of a night. For drinks out, probably more like 5 bottles between 2, especially if including wine with a meal

OP, if you feel like shit after one glass, why do you carry on drinking?

Because I'm an alcoholic.
Just a slightly odd alcoholic in the sense that I'm also a lightweight.

Well there you go, you've answered your own question.

@ArrowsOfMistletoe

You're drinking more than you should, but it's why you're drinking more than how much that is the problem. You're drinking to self medicate - you know that isn't healthy, so yes, you should stop. And if you can't stop at a glass or two (and don't even enjoy those) than yes, you should stop.

You have a lot of insight, so I hope you will be able to address the reasons why you use drink in this way - I think that's key to unlocking a solution and finding a happier future.

I'd say counselling/therapy are more your route out of this than AA, but on the other hand if you find the right group, you might find help there too.

You have insight and understanding; your situation is very far from desperate. You can turn this round. Good luck.

I'm in therapy. My therapist was pretty shit but I've recently started with a new one who is very good. We've not really had a chance to discuss my alcohol issues much yet but I will do so next week

@blanc00

Also there are local support groups (via video at the moment)

I'll look into that

@blanc00

This could be the post of somebody I know, who eventually concluded they were an alcoholic, and went cold turkey. If you think you have a problem, you have a problem.

The trouble in Britain is that heavy drinking is normalised, and so goes the train of thought ‘well so and so drinks x amount so I must be ok.” Normalising the situation is a common part of alcohol abuse.

At the end of the day, anyone who uses alcohol to cope, or unwind after a hard day, does have an alcohol problem. People shouldn’t need that to feel ok - healthy coping mechanisms are what are needed.

I hope you get the help you need. You are so strong admitting to yourself that you may have a problem. There are plenty of resources out there online to help, and YouTube etc. Well done x

I totally agree with this. Seriously heavy drinking is very much normalised in the UK.

@MrsMiaWallis

I'm surprised to hear so many people say that the OP isn't an alcoholic "because 3 or 4 bottles of wine a week isn't much" That's 40 units a week, that is a lot.

It's called projecting. I drank far less than that and still considered myself to have an alcohol problem (because of my inability to stop once is started and how it made me feel and what it did to me) I couldn't cope with wondering when I'd 'do it again' so I quit with the help of citalopram and local alcohol services. There is an awful lot of hilt induced projection on this thread and I'd advise the op to be very very cautious of taking heed of the 'reassurances'.

Have you ever done the AUDIT C questionnaire OP? Would be worth doing if not, it’s one of the first things we do during an assessment in the drug and alcohol service I work in, regardless of substance people come in for.
www.gmmh.nhs.uk/download.cfm?doc=docm93jijm4n639.pdf&ver=1017

In my service we would work with you at the levels you are reporting, even with COIVD but it would be telephone appointments at the moment, you’d be offered up to 8 sessions with the first team and then depending on where you were at the end of them would transfer to another team to continue the work

Good luck OP, if you feel it’s a problem then it’s a problem, definitely contact your local substance misuse service

@Labobo

OP, I agree with you. It is problematic drinking. A bottle alone in one go is alcoholic behaviour. It's three nights a week now. You just have to have a bad run and let it become four or five and you are immediately into a very high danger zone. The issues are that it is binge drinking and that you need a whole bottle in order to numb your feelings. I agree that you need help. It's not the quantity over the course of a week that is the problem, it's the underlying habit and emotional reliance. I think AA or similar would take you seriously if you wanted their help.

As I've said in my original post it's been 3 nights a week for 10 years now. It's not going to become 4 or 5. Because I am getting older now (40s) I am struggling to be able to finish an entire bottle and usually can't do more than half a bottle in an evening anymore. But I am still buying the wine with the intention of drinking the whole bottle in one evening if I can stomach it. But it's not necessarily the amount or the frequency that's the issue here anyway. It's the fact that I'm doing it purely to numb out painful feelings (in particular I am still haunted by having been raped and then nearly dying at age 16). So the wine is not something I find enjoyable or pleasurable, I am totally using it to self-medicate. I've heard quite scary things about AA. I'm going to start by discussing my drinking issues with my new therapist.

@Savourysenorita

It's called projecting. I drank far less than that and still considered myself to have an alcohol problem (because of my inability to stop once is started and how it made me feel and what it did to me) I couldn't cope with wondering when I'd 'do it again' so I quit with the help of citalopram and local alcohol services. There is an awful lot of hilt induced projection on this thread and I'd advise the op to be very very cautious of taking heed of the 'reassurances'.

Oh I am most definitely not taking these comments as a way of justifying and encouraging my drinking. No way.
I'm not sure where the 3 to 4 bottles a week came from. Not to split hairs but I've been doing up to 3 bottles a week (usually 3 or 2) and as my OP says on a very bad week (maybe couple of times a year) I've done 4 bottles in one week.

Although it's way too much alcohol (in my opinion), it's not the amount that's my biggest concern, it's my mindset and reasons for drinking that's the issue.
It's actually not even about alcohol if for some reason I was physically no longer able to tolerate any alcohol without becoming very ill, I wouldn't persist, instead I'd latch onto another means of numbing out my emotions like excessive exercising or compulsive shopping or something.

What's your thought process when you buy it OP? Do you think "I'll treat myself" or are you buying because you think you're going to need it one evening as an emotional crutch? You sound a bit lonely. Do you think if you had good company in the evenings you would drink this much? Why doesn't one glass relax you and take the edge off your day and your feelings? Surely one glass has that effect, but you continue to glass number 5. Have you noticed addictive behaviour in any part of you life?

Ps I'm so sorry about your traumas you've suffered. I'm going to be cruel to be kind here.... When we drink we nerd to find an excuse. I know I did (and they were all true) but those experiences don't mean you drink or else everybody would be drinking unhealthily. It's become an excuse to continue the drink habit. I'm my opinion 3 bottles of wine a week is a lot. I was a problem drinker and drank far less than that. If you get some help to stop (local support don't just look at drinking they look at the psychology behind addictive patterns and mental processes behind it) read Annie grace 'this naked mind' it changed my life. Also if you still feel the trauma is at the forefront of your mind after some sober time you'll be in a better frame of mind to mentally sort through it with therapy. I suspect it may not be such a consuming thought once you're sober. You'll have a new outlook. Please be mindful some people will tell you you're not drinking that much on here because they're reflecting on their own drinking and want reassurance. It's very common. There's a better life out there for you that doesn't involve sitting alone drinking on your own. Trust me. Buy that book (it's on amazon) ice and a slice ( can't remember author) is a novel but a very good read about the life of a very normal woman with a very normal life that develops a drink problem. I highly recommend it

DH drinks 2 bottles of wine per week, on two nights. So a whole bottle of wine to himself on 2 nights per week.

He used to drink significantly more than that. He also did it to numb childhood trauma and anxiety / feelings he didn’t know how to deal with. He went for hypnotherapy to help get to the root of his issues and understand the things that happened to him we’re not his fault.

He’s done remarkably well in life considering his horrific background. He now drinks his two bottles because he actually wants to and enjoys it so I see this as progress. I don’t nag him, but I do tell him that personally I still see this as too much.

I don’t drink at all in the house and would only drink one or two occasionally socially but we are surrounded by people who drink every day, celebrate drinking as a good thing, and who would see 2 bottles as a drop on the ocean, so I am the anomaly. Two bottles of wine is a drop on the ocean for them!

Have you tried antidepressants?

@Ofalltheginjoints

Have you ever done the AUDIT C questionnaire OP? Would be worth doing if not, it’s one of the first things we do during an assessment in the drug and alcohol service I work in, regardless of substance people come in for. www.gmmh.nhs.uk/download.cfm?doc=docm93jijm4n639.pdf&ver=1017

In my service we would work with you at the levels you are reporting, even with COIVD but it would be telephone appointments at the moment, you’d be offered up to 8 sessions with the first team and then depending on where you were at the end of them would transfer to another team to continue the work

Good luck OP, if you feel it’s a problem then it’s a problem, definitely contact your local substance misuse service

That would be awesome. I'm going to see what's available to me in my area.

@Savourysenorita

Ps I'm so sorry about your traumas you've suffered. I'm going to be cruel to be kind here.... When we drink we nerd to find an excuse. I know I did (and they were all true) but those experiences don't mean you drink or else everybody would be drinking unhealthily. It's become an excuse to continue the drink habit. I'm my opinion 3 bottles of wine a week is a lot. I was a problem drinker and drank far less than that. If you get some help to stop (local support don't just look at drinking they look at the psychology behind addictive patterns and mental processes behind it) read Annie grace 'this naked mind' it changed my life. Also if you still feel the trauma is at the forefront of your mind after some sober time you'll be in a better frame of mind to mentally sort through it with therapy. I suspect it may not be such a consuming thought once you're sober. You'll have a new outlook. Please be mindful some people will tell you you're not drinking that much on here because they're reflecting on their own drinking and want reassurance. It's very common. There's a better life out there for you that doesn't involve sitting alone drinking on your own. Trust me. Buy that book (it's on amazon) ice and a slice ( can't remember author) is a novel but a very good read about the life of a very normal woman with a very normal life that develops a drink problem. I highly recommend it

Absolutely brilliant advice and spot on.

@DianaT1969

What's your thought process when you buy it OP? Do you think "I'll treat myself" or are you buying because you think you're going to need it one evening as an emotional crutch? You sound a bit lonely. Do you think if you had good company in the evenings you would drink this much? Why doesn't one glass relax you and take the edge off your day and your feelings? Surely one glass has that effect, but you continue to glass number 5. Have you noticed addictive behaviour in any part of you life?

I'm in a relationship and I don't feel lonely. I actually drink more when I'm in a relationship than when I'm single.

Why would one glass relax and take the edge off someone who has an alcohol problem and severe trauma?

Side note: I don't think there are 5 glasses in a bottle of wine?

I feel like shit when I buy wine. Probably similar to the way a heroin addict feels when they are out looking for heroin.

Ps interesting point about you'd 'latch on to something else' it's the typical psychology of someone with a drink problem - ( not meant offensively) if you get support you'll learn all this. Annie grace book I recommended is a really good place to start. Sorry if I misread your drinking amounts before. How much you drink isn't actually that relevant. It's what it does to you.