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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

999 replies

PurpleFeather · 08/12/2020 21:54

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

OP posts:
MsTSwift · 12/12/2020 09:58

Bush not bus

FoxyTheFox · 12/12/2020 09:58

Not rare, sadly, but still less common than rape by someone you know.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/12/2020 10:00

I haven't RTFT it's too long now

"I didn't bother to read all your reasons,explanations,opinions or experiences.. but here's why you're wrong."

The sheer arrogance ...

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 10:02

@AccidentallyOnPurpose what the heck are you talking about?? Many people commonly don't read a whole thread of 900 plus responses??! Because you don't agree with my point now all of a sudden you think it ok to be an ass.

Honestly every time Mumsnet just does it for me.

Pathetic

ImAllOut · 12/12/2020 10:03

Very odd, I mean do you have sons and brother and fathers? I actually don't, the only men I have in my life that have not been assholes are my DH and brother but I still can't agree with this thread.
The male perpetrators of horrific crimes and sexist attitudes all have mothers, a lot unfortunately have wives, daughters and sisters who they abuse too. I don't know what point you have to make about having relatives of a certain sex?

Also as you have said yourself, it is a science based fact that men are "more sexual". There are no science based facts about whole races, ethnicities, sexualties etc so it's not comparable to racism and other forms of discrimination. Did you see my link up thread from Equality Now about the laws that still exist in far too many countries that discriminate against women in awful ways, some closer to home than people realise. For example, Malta allows a man to kidnap a woman legally as long as he marries her afterwards. Good stuff!

PandaPopz · 12/12/2020 10:09

“Not all men.” My response every time:

Not all men are predators, but all women are prey.

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 10:09

@ImAllOut the Malta law is disgusting yes but the thread isn't taking about that specifically. The first few hundred responses is a pile on men.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/12/2020 10:17

[quote hellymissy]@ImAllOut the Malta law is disgusting yes but the thread isn't taking about that specifically. The first few hundred responses is a pile on men.

[/quote]
How would you know? After all you haven't read it..

I might very well be an ass, I have no issues with that but it takes a very special type of person to come on a thread where women describe horrific experiences at the hands of men and tell them they're wrong.. wrong to be angry,wrong to expect society to change,wrong to expect better from men, wrong in how they deal with abusive or predatory men.

ImAllOut · 12/12/2020 10:17

@hellymissy yes and women partly form that opinion of men because there are still many places in the world who discriminate against women so blatantly, and the majority indirectly discriminate against women through society's attitudes towards them anyway. A lot of women will rightly struggle to trust men when we live in a world that excuses their behaviour and belittles women at every step. As I have said, I am one of those lucky few that have never had awful things happen to me at the hands of men, but I am still well aware that we have a problem with men's behaviour.

NeurologicallySpeaking · 12/12/2020 10:21

@PandaPopz

“Not all men.” My response every time:

Not all men are predators, but all women are prey.

I love this. I mean I hate it because it's sickening but it's true - I doubt many men worry about being prey to a violent woman.
MoonPomme · 12/12/2020 10:22

Poor men.
Emotional, weak women being all emotional on the internet and talking too much about them.
Ffs.

lottiegarbanzo · 12/12/2020 10:25

I don't get it.

The subject of the thread is 'AIBU to have had it with men'. The subject is 'I'. The subject is not 'all men'.

So whether or not 'all men are like that' is irrelevant, because it just doesn't matter to OP and others whether they are, or they are not. What matters is that OP and others regularly experience enough shit from many men that, in order to eliminate that shit from their lives and without the magical power to discern good from bad without speaking to people first, the simplest action is to avoid all men.

Sure, they might miss out on chatting to a few nice men but so what? They've decided that, on balance, they are more than happy to accept that risk, in favour of an overall preferable outcome.

Women's experiences are the topic here. It is so, so weird that some people cannot or will not accept that women's experiences and their resulting choices, their personal agency, should ever be a topic for discussion at all. That it must be caveated with 'but what about your duty to others who are not part of this discussion, and how your choice might, hypothetically, make them feel?'.

Jo Brand put it so, so simply on HIGNFY during the #metoo moment, when Ian delivered the 'but most men are not like that' line and she responded with 'yes but it doesn't take a huge number, for women to feel they are constantly under siege'.

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 10:32

@AccidentallyOnPurpose haven't RTFT means I haven't read all 900 responses I had read the few hundred so I had read it just for the record.

Melange99 · 12/12/2020 10:32

@hellymissy

She did mention sexism and how men think they're smarter. Yes this is a common attitude amongst a lot of men but again I'm not getting angry about it. I can't control other peoples thoughts it's their problem.

You should be angry, it is your problem, it is all females problems - in a professional context men still have it easy, are deferred to, looked up to, talk over women, earn more money, jobs for the boys - not because of talent, or capability but an innate arrogance because society tells them they are the best and that women should be playing homemaker rather than being at work. The old boys network is still a thing. Old fashioned attitudes to women still exist. Why would you not be affected? Men can stick up for themselves, they don't need you.

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 10:37

@Melange99 I never said it wasn't my problem but getting angry about it is only going to hurt myself not the men that think that way

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 10:43

I just feel that women quite regularly pile on men and the fact is there are issues amongst both men AND women in society it's not just all about men

Honestly I quite often feel let down by the behaviour of many women (in other contexts, I'm not taking about violence) as much as I am men.

HitthatroadJack · 12/12/2020 10:44

The subject of the thread is 'AIBU to have had it with men'. The subject is 'I'. The subject is not 'all men'.

So whether or not 'all men are like that' is irrelevant, because it just doesn't matter to OP and others whether they are, or they are not. What matters is that OP and others regularly experience enough shit from many men that, in order to eliminate that shit from their lives and without the magical power to discern good from bad without speaking to people first, the simplest action is to avoid all men.

It's a public forum. Any thread about anything allows posters to have a different opinion and to express it. Of course it's ok for posters to reply, yes, YABU

A world exclusively populated by women is my idea of hell frankly.

Even if not all those women shout "if you don't agree with me, shut up and go away, no one should have a different opinion" 🤷

MsTSwift · 12/12/2020 10:45

We only have the rights we do have because women in the past pushed pushed pushed in the face of strong opposition. Cambridge undergrads actually fucking rioted when women were first admitted. Imagine if they had all taken your attitude 🙄. We would still be chattel.

PuntasticUsername · 12/12/2020 10:46

"Yes some men can be overtly sexual that's a science based fact but It's my responsibility as a person to learn how to deal with dickheads in society and avoid"

Why do you think it's your responsibility to deal with or avoid the dickheads, and not men's responsibility to not act like dickheads?

It's misogyny all the way down.

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 10:48

A world exclusively populated by women is my idea of hell frankly.

Precisely, just as much as a world full of men would be.

But many of the women here clearly seem to think they're perfect by the sounds of it.

Bizarre.

Ddot · 12/12/2020 10:55

All men are not capable of rape nobody is saying that. It is the fear of attack that is the worst, not knowing who is around the corner. Being touched, stared at and offensive language in a public place is awful, demeaning, scary, embarrassing yes but you survive and unfortunately get used to it. Once you've been attacked you dont survive unscathed it's in your bloody head forever and you dudge men in a different way. Survivor mind set.

Wheresmykimchi · 12/12/2020 11:00

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

I have to say I don't have much hope for the current generations of men, but I do expect so much better from the current boys. Because they can be better.

And I support that cause through various charity and at work. Doing my bit one hug,cry and boy at a time.

What exactly are the posters bemoaning the sad , unfortunate lives of men doing? Besides berating women for having shelters,refuges,support systems etc?

Continuing to highlight the appalling statistics of male mental health by speaking out wherever I see them as a class being hammered - and look at the outcome.
Wheresmykimchi · 12/12/2020 11:01

@HitthatroadJack

The subject of the thread is 'AIBU to have had it with men'. The subject is 'I'. The subject is not 'all men'.

So whether or not 'all men are like that' is irrelevant, because it just doesn't matter to OP and others whether they are, or they are not. What matters is that OP and others regularly experience enough shit from many men that, in order to eliminate that shit from their lives and without the magical power to discern good from bad without speaking to people first, the simplest action is to avoid all men.

It's a public forum. Any thread about anything allows posters to have a different opinion and to express it. Of course it's ok for posters to reply, yes, YABU

A world exclusively populated by women is my idea of hell frankly.

Even if not all those women shout "if you don't agree with me, shut up and go away, no one should have a different opinion" 🤷

Thank the lord , it's taken 38 pages but finally someone agrees and I am not the male slave , misogynistic apologist demon of the thread Smile
AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/12/2020 11:02

@MsTSwift

We only have the rights we do have because women in the past pushed pushed pushed in the face of strong opposition. Cambridge undergrads actually fucking rioted when women were first admitted. Imagine if they had all taken your attitude 🙄. We would still be chattel.
Not to mention the fights happening right now. I think a lot of women are oblivious that our hard won right are constantly and systematically under attack and disputed by various groups.

Just because we have them, it doesn't mean they're safe. If we put up,shut up, be nice and accommodating in less than 50 years we'd be right back where we started .

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/12/2020 11:06

@Wheresmykimchi sorry but that's not enough. Do something proactive, not lecture women and tell them they're wrong to feel the way they do.

Volunteer for men charities, open up a support group, donate to men's charities, fundraise,put you time and blood and sweat in bettering things for them if you feel it's such a worthy cause.

Otherwise you're just paying lip service .