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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

999 replies

PurpleFeather · 08/12/2020 21:54

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

OP posts:
whiterabbitsweets · 12/12/2020 07:52

@Ddot

Sounds like good advice. Keep beating the fucker until you can see he's not going to get up in a hurry.

Too many times I see films/TV where a woman hits once and runs away, only for the guy to get up and chase after her.

The art of self defense is to disable by any means possible. I'm not talking about killing someone obvs. but making sure they can't continue their goal of abuse/rape/whatever.

Hot points are usually a knee/foot in the groin, fist/elbow to the chin or nose.

Ddot · 12/12/2020 07:59

Didnt want to go into too much detail brother had rather grim advice but it saved me. Brother basically said if he goes down make sure he's not getting up in a hurry.

whiterabbitsweets · 12/12/2020 08:02

@Ddot Flowers

Sorry you were even in the position to need your brother's advice. But valuable nonetheless.

Ddot · 12/12/2020 08:02

The worse thing about it, he had walked me home from youth club. Then told his mates to not bother because I didnt put out. Haha

Ddot · 12/12/2020 08:05

Whiterabbitsweets
Ta x

deedeegee · 12/12/2020 08:08

Went to a v thought provoking play a couple of years ago... women voicing men’s locker room comments about women. Vicious sexism including a group of young men talking about shagging women with paper bags over their heads, but they agreed it’d have better if they’d been killed first. They were a group of young doctors...that really shocked me.
There was a discussion after the play which my partner didn’t stay for. He thought the content of the play was trivial although it did reflect mentalk about women- it was just banter to him and not worth discussing.
We broke up shortly after that...other reasons involved as well.

MsTSwift · 12/12/2020 08:15

Kate I agree. I suppose I was seen as attractive by men which yes had its advantages but now 46 and such a relief to no longer be leered at / awkwardly hit or at worst grim sexual comments shouted as I go about my days.

Notanotherusernamenow · 12/12/2020 08:18

My DH and I run together and there’s a little flat park with a running track around it, but it’s poorly lit. First night we started running, he wanted go go round the park and at first I said ok but when I got there, my brakes slammed on and I just couldn’t do it. My DH understood but was also quite surprised. However, we were at a small gathering of our closest friends fairly recently and the conversation turned to assault/rape and the women, including our friend who is gay, had each been assaulted or raped. The men didn’t know any man who assaulted or raped - but I also know that one used to play for a sports team where one of the players was known for using prostitutes, which was condemned by other players in private but they never called this guy out as he was such a good player.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/12/2020 08:25

@hellymissy

I actually find this thread quite disturbing, judgmental and weird.

Let's just imagine a guy starts a thread saying how he's had it with women because;

They're irrational
Too emotional
Weak
Talk too much
Too sensitive

I'd love to know your reactions.

  1. They don't have to start a thread ,it's out in the open. From men, in the media, in various institutions, from doctors,police etc. It's an inherent part of society.
  1. Funny how all your examples are at best annoying, whereas we talk about fear .. about harassment, sexual assault,rape,murder,abuse , being kept back in the work place and so on.

Shows how good men really have if that's all they'd have to complain about in a "I've had enough" thread.

MsTSwift · 12/12/2020 08:29

How lovely if the worst you had to fear from the opposite sex was that they were “too emotional” or “talked too much”.🙄🙄🙄 Does that poster ever read the news ?

Ddot · 12/12/2020 08:34

If as a man you want to start a thread about womans behaviour, go for it. I'd be quite interested. I really do mean that. I'd love to hear how it affects your day to day behaviour.

WiseOwlWan · 12/12/2020 08:37

@Ddot

If as a man you want to start a thread about womans behaviour, go for it. I'd be quite interested. I really do mean that. I'd love to hear how it affects your day to day behaviour.
Same here. I was wondering what women's behavior would be. Fuckable but won't fuck me. That is why men hate women. \
Ddot · 12/12/2020 08:38

Couldnt sleep one night, too hot. I really wanted to go for a walk. Got dressed opened the door looked out at the darkness. Went back to bed.

jwpetal · 12/12/2020 09:36

Now to raise our daughters to have a voice and our sons to be aware. My daughters
are in year 6 and the boys are already intimidating and saying inappropriate things. I have spoken to the teachers. It is all very sad.

For those with just boys, your role is so important to instill the values to make this a better place for all.

When you are ready, empower yourself to say something or fo something. From anger can come a spark if action. We are the next step toward a fairer, safer world.

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 09:36

Sorry ladies but I still find this thread a massive generalisation, and extremely sexist.

I see it no different to people categorising whole groups of races and saying 'oh they're all like this and that' hence why racism is a problem.

I believe every person should be judged on their own individual merit. I know plenty of men in real life and it is a minority that you have to be fearful of that would actually attack you in the street and rape you. Are you really telling me you believe majority of men are capable of sneaking you into a bush and raping you?

Yes some men can be overtly sexual that's a science based fact but It's my responsibility as a person to learn how to deal with dickheads in society and avoid. I can't expect the world to change it become a very angry wound up person if the case.

Very odd, I mean do you have sons and brother and fathers? I actually don't, the only men I have in my life that have not been assholes are my DH and brother but I still can't agree with this thread.

yetanothernamitynamechange · 12/12/2020 09:37

I think, often (not always) when you watch a woman on TV slap/hit a man it is because he has made sexual advances of one kind or another. E.g. the traditional thing is man says something sexually suggestive to a woman, woman is shocked at his cheek and slaps him. This is problematic because it comes from a place where the only way to show your opposition to someones advances is physical - to slap them (what a good girl does). Anything else shows you are not really seriously saying no. It is a 50s mentality and quite a dangerous message to send. However, in reality, telling someone to leave you alone doesnt always work. @Ddot gives a really good example of when self defence is absolutely justified. However, there is a grey area where a man is pushing his luck but a violent reaction is excessive. The problem is, by the time they become agressive it might be too late. By the time someone has you pinned down it is too late to knee them in the groin often. So what a lot of "why didnt she fight back" people dont realise is that there is a really tiny window of opportunity to do that in sometimes and women need to be able to make an incredibly fast decision. For that reason I think an over-reaction is better than an under-reaction. Good self defence also needs to include more low-key ways of creating space between you and a man, so that if a situation escalates you have more time to react. E.g. if someone suddenly tries to put there arm round your shoulder you can throw your arm up to block them and step away sharply. That isnt being "sensitive". Its just its much easy to do that than get out of a headlock.
But yes, I agree, once you hit someone once keep doing it till you have the space to run away and then run like hell. Its just that method isnt appropriate for gropey mcgrope face at the office party.

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 09:41

Also to some of the posters saying raise good sons I agree, but also think there is a very problematic way in which we raise girls too.

The way society views and treats BOTH genders is concerning and only encourages us from a young age to fit into certain places and roles within society. So I actually think your wanting about raising in certain ways is a note to all parents not just those with boys.

Parents also need to lead by example which often does not happen.

MsTSwift · 12/12/2020 09:42

It’s not the behaviour of a minority though is it? our whole society is drenched in this attitude. Amazed you haven’t noticed!

yetanothernamitynamechange · 12/12/2020 09:44

@hellymissy I dont think everyone on this thread is saying all men are rapists. They are however saying a sizeable minority are capable of rape, and a depressing majority are capable of minimizing it OR of behaving in other sexist ways that negatively impact the lives of women. So no, not all are rapists, but many (not all) are arseholes - your own eperiences seem to confirm this.
And incidentally, not all rape is the dragging a stranger in the bush kind. I would agree that fewer men do this (apart from anything else it carries more risk so you would need to be very unbalanced to carry it out).

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/12/2020 09:47

@hellymissy

Sorry ladies but I still find this thread a massive generalisation, and extremely sexist.

I see it no different to people categorising whole groups of races and saying 'oh they're all like this and that' hence why racism is a problem.

I believe every person should be judged on their own individual merit. I know plenty of men in real life and it is a minority that you have to be fearful of that would actually attack you in the street and rape you. Are you really telling me you believe majority of men are capable of sneaking you into a bush and raping you?

Yes some men can be overtly sexual that's a science based fact but It's my responsibility as a person to learn how to deal with dickheads in society and avoid. I can't expect the world to change it become a very angry wound up person if the case.

Very odd, I mean do you have sons and brother and fathers? I actually don't, the only men I have in my life that have not been assholes are my DH and brother but I still can't agree with this thread.

1.you do realise most women and girls are attacked in their own homes, by a partner,family members,friends etc?
  1. I do expect the world to change. I do want better for my daughter. I do believe and know men can be and do better.
  2. What's wrong with society and men is not just violence based. It's all the micro aggressions, the sexism, seeing women as less, the pay gap, the work discrimination ,the mansplaining etc
  3. I do have plenty of male family members. Two have behaved inappropriately with me when I was a child.
  4. "I know how to deal with dickheads" it's victim blaming, deluded bullshit.
NeurologicallySpeaking · 12/12/2020 09:48

Thank you @AccidentallyOnPurpose for typing out that reply. Everything I wanted to say - yes we bloody do expect society to change!

hellymissy · 12/12/2020 09:49

I haven't RTFT it's too long now but the original OP started ranting about rapists and violence.

She did mention sexism and how men think they're smarter. Yes this is a common attitude amongst a lot of men but again I'm not getting angry about it. I can't control other peoples thoughts it's their problem.

There are many women on the flip side that encourage the 'oh I'm useless help poor me' image which is why I say the parenting advice should be both boys and girls parents need to be very mindful how they are raising them is we are trying to change society which is seems is what we are hoping to do on this thread.

Ddot · 12/12/2020 09:52

A good one liner has worked a treat, for me anyway.

FoxyTheFox · 12/12/2020 09:54

Are you really telling me you believe majority of men are capable of sneaking you into a bush and raping you?

The majority of women who are raped or sexually assaulted know their attacker. Its their boyfriend who decides one night that "no, I'm tired" is a starting point for negation rather than the final answer. Its the guy they go on a couple of dates with who decides that he paid for the drinks so he's owed sexual access. Its the guy from their friendship group who walks them home from the pub because "you shouldn't walk by yourself at night" and then decides to 'make his move' but he isn't a rapist, oh no, because he's a self-proclaimed Nice Guy. Its the friend of a friend who spots the drunk girl getting put to bed by her friends at the teen house party and goes upstairs after they've left the room "to check she's okay". Its the husband who thinks sex is his due for being Lord and Master of the house and doesn't see no as an option. The colleague on a business trip away who drops by their hotel room to "ask a quick question about the presentation".

The men who would sneak you into a bush are nowhere near as common as the rapists we live and work with.

MsTSwift · 12/12/2020 09:57

Hmm. Anecdotally two good friends were sexually assaulted by strangers in their twenties. My flat mate was pushed into a bus on way home from work (6pm but dark) another friend assaulted after a random broke into the holiday accommodation she was staying in as an au pair in Spain. So for me it’s not rare.