To have no time for ‘gender disappointment’

[Dinosaur19]

Friend is having her first baby boy. Is ‘devastated’ as she ‘always wanted a girl’. AIBU to not understand this type of disappointment? Surely when you try for a baby you know that the odds are 50/50 and you should accept that or don’t have bloody kids. I have 2 DS so this pisses me off slightly.

This thread is shocking, would you tell someone with PND they should be more grateful for their child or not to ttc in case it happens again?! GD is hugely linked to A/PND.

@Usernamenotavailabletryanother

I suffered badly from gender disappointment when I found out the sex of my first baby. It was a girl. Words cannot describe how much I wanted a boy; I was devastated. It's not something you can admit to in many circles; hardly any in fact.

I now know that I was suffering from ante-natal depression. All my fears and anxieties about having a child were projected onto the sex of the baby. I hated, actually hated women who were pregnant with boys as I so desperately wanted one. I ‘didn't like’ girls and felt that my life was ruined. I thought that I would never accept it. Any support I could find was geared towards women who wanted girls but were carrying boys, which made me feel much worse.

I had counselling with the ante-natal counsellor attached to the hospital. Interestingly, my counsellor said that she had seen lots of couples, particularly mothers who had experienced gender disappointment after years of infertility, miscarriages and IVF. In a way, she said that they had had more time to construct an image of 'their child' in their head, and had naturally ascribed it a gender. Most commonly, the imagined child was a girl and they were pregnant with twin boys. I was green with envy at the thought of them having boys. I felt like a failure who had spoiled my life.

I also had to face up to a lot of issues of my own- including my own relationship with my parents and issues I had with patriarchy and my own perception of gender. It was my biggest soul-search to date, and one I am very glad I did.

And then she was born... and she wasn't a boy, but she wasn't 'a girl' either. She was mine. She was, well, her.

I still felt disappointed, but every day the disappointment lessened and was replaced by love for her. It wasn't an instantaneous process, but I fell utterly and hopelessly in love with her in a way which I could not have anticipated.

I loved her a million times more than an imaginary son- but I had no way of knowing that until she was born.

I now have two fantastic girls, and couldn't be happier with my family. It feels complete. We're done

This is a really interesting take on it and it’s very refreshing actually!

Absolutely, both sides are totally valid

No, they are not. I completely and utterly disagree.

My main thought upon finding out I was having a DS was that I was pleased for him as being a teenage girl is bloody awful, but I wouldn't have been disappointed otherwise.

I know many people who would literally do almost anything to have been able to have had a child and who mourn every day because they cannot.

The sheer grotesque privilege it takes to be disappointed over a healthy, happy baby's sex (putting aside the weird sexism--the baby is a human, ffs) is stunning.

I'm sure I read somewhere that statistically you're more likely to have a boy than a girl

Good luck when your kid wants to change gender then...

I am due my third DS and was so thrilled he was a boy. I may have been slightly "disappointed" if he were to be a girl? I don't know. I just wanted a little boy my first I had PND and it was a blur, my second was seriously ill from an infant and hospitalised for over a year. I felt I missed out on my baby boys.

However everyone else has made their disappointment about my baby quite well known. My DM included. Everybody keeps saying "oh no not another boy, are you gutted?" / "Will you try again for a girl?"

It's so rude.

I dont understand someone being devastated especially with your first. Can kind of understand a slight disappointment with not having the other sex but not feeling too strong about it. To hear women say they are 'crushed' and 'devastated' about carrying a certain sex is just disturbing really.
So many women who can't have any babies and you hear this bloody terrible and so unfair.

(That wasn't particularly gracious of me. Usernamenotavailabletryanother, you've given me a useful alternative perspective. I suppose some of it is depression by another name, and that I understand and acknowledge.)

@hammeringinmyhead

Absolutely, both sides are totally valid

No, they are not. I completely and utterly disagree.

My main thought upon finding out I was having a DS was that I was pleased for him as being a teenage girl is bloody awful, but I wouldn't have been disappointed otherwise.

You don't get to pick and choose whether or not you have a mental health problem and how you will feel.

@FluffyPurple

This thread is shocking, would you tell someone with PND they should be more grateful for their child or not to ttc in case it happens again?! GD is hugely linked to A/PND.

I have a friend who ended up in a psychiatric unit post birth due to PND and an anxiety disorder and she already decided herself not to risk it again.

If someone knows they will be "devastated" as opposed to a bit disappointed if they get a boy then yes, I would probably advise them against TTC.

Sorry but yabu. You can't help how you feel and shaming woman for this is cruel. I very much doubt any woman who is initially a bit disappointed about the gender goes on to love their baby any less. It's hard to talk about and it's not very sisterly to tell them to get a life.

If I complain about pregnancy should I also get a life for daring to feel anything but complete gratitude for the gift of a child?

I'd ask you why you care so much?

I didn’t feel like this because I knew there was a 50% chance of having a boy and a 50% chance of having a girl. I genuinely do not know how people can be horrified at finding out they are having their ‘non preferred’ sex, it is literally 50/50! Maybe I am an atrocious friend, but I wouldn’t dare moan to my friend about how upset I am to be having a son, whilst my friend is raising 2 sons.

It's 50/50 in any given pregnancy but the % of people who would have 3 boys or 3 girls is 25%.
4 of the same sex is 12.5%
5 is 6.25%
and 6 is 3.125%

So that is why people think it's rare and allow themselves to get their hopes up that the chances might be more in their favour in subsequent pregnancies that they might have a baby of the opposite sex!

Yes but you can have compassion for someone with pnd and have no sympathy or time for the gender disappointment.

In the same way you can have a great deal of sympathy for someone struggling with other mental illnesses without making soothing noises and nodding approvingly along with say, compulsive thoughts, binging or self harm.

One of the hardest things for me, having been brought up with my parents being disappointed in my gender was having a boy myself (they were very open about it, used to find it hilarious to tell the story of how my dad exclaimed "my boy!" When I was born, only for the midwife to say, "actually, it's a little girl", and how my mum burst into tears, like he was Henry the bloody 8th).

When my son was born my dad finally had what he wanted. Don't get me wrong, my son has had the best grandad in the world (my mum was long dead by that point), but it really stung.

Interestingly, I also have two girls who my dad dotes on too. He loves them all equally and doesn't favour Ds at all.

Personally I didn't care either way. Like PP, I've suffered multiple loses. I now have 3 dc and I can hand on heart say I never gave their gender a thought. All I cared about was seeing a healthy pregnancy and birth through to the end.

Like WankPuffins, I grew up knowing I was an unwanted daughter. My birth story includes not having a name for quite a while because my mother had only picked a boy name and was so unhappy I came out without a dick that she refused to listen to anyone's suggestions for a while.

I was tomboy baby for a few years, wasn't doing that too well, and then my mother went 180 and went to the other extreme of me needing to be the epitome of her idea of femininity which I also failed at spectacularly. I could never reach her expectations and everyone around us seemed to treat what she was doing as normal so I constantly felt like I was failing by being me.

Most of what I think with gender disappointment (rather than fears that come with genetic conditions), beyond the flicker of 'oh I thought I knew but I was wrong' which can be disorientating is let babies be babies. I do think in some communities and families there is a lot of obviously unfair pressure to have one or the other and I can see why some mothers might fear that backlash, but really, let kids be kids.

It's like that saying how some suffering we inflict on ourselves by our expectations not being met - but part of being a good parent is accepting that our expectations of them aren't what matters, it's the child we have in front of us.

Nearly all the things I hear people want with their daughters on the 'oh dear I'm having a boys' thread, I do with my DSs. We have a great relationship, talk about everything, we've developed hobbies together, we've had fun days out, I've done their hair and their nails at various paints. DS1 is 16 and I have a far better relationship with him as he is than I ever had with my mother.

I can empathise with the people who do because some people are obviously desperate to have a particular gender which is evident by the fact that they keep trying!

Genuinely, how can you 'empathise' with people who are unhappy until they produce a child with the right kind of piss-hole? What actual fing difference does it make? People who have endless amount of children just because they don't have the right 'gender' are just awful, the poor kids they already have not being good enough .

@FourTeaFallOut

Yes but you can have compassion for someone with pnd and have no sympathy or time for the gender disappointment.

In the same way you can have a great deal of sympathy for someone struggling with other mental illnesses without making soothing noises and nodding approvingly along with say, compulsive thoughts, binging or self harm.

This exactly. And I don't think it is always, or even often, PND when women post on here saying they're upset because "A daughter is for life, a son is a son til he takes a wife" and all that nonsense.

I understand someone may have a slight preference, and perhaps a bit of disappointment.

But YANBU, your friend announcing she's "devastated" is insensitive, ridiculous, and unfair on her future child.

I think pregnancy hormones can make the most normal person have some very strange thoughts.

I'm pregnant with baby no.2. Have a DD. Was worried I'd be disappointed if I was having a boy. Actually having a girl, and was disappointed it's not a boy.

Obviously I'm happy baby is currently healthy and as long as that continues I'll be very happy. Hormones do crazy things to the best of us.

It's never 'gender disappointment' on MN, though is it? It's 'boy disappointment'. That's what I find so frustrating.

What message are we sending our sons and our daughters, if from day one girls are expected to share interests and life experiences while boys are expected to be rowdy, muddy and never call their mums.

@TaraRhu

Sorry but yabu. You can't help how you feel and shaming woman for this is cruel. I very much doubt any woman who is initially a bit disappointed about the gender goes on to love their baby any less. It's hard to talk about and it's not very sisterly to tell them to get a life.

If I complain about pregnancy should I also get a life for daring to feel anything but complete gratitude for the gift of a child?

I'd ask you why you care so much?

No because you probably knew pregnancy was going to be very tough before you got pregnant. Like you also know you can’t guarantee the sex of your child regardless of your preference. Complaining about the physical effects of pregnancy, sickness, pain, etc, isn’t the same as being bereft at having a baby boy because you never saw yourself with one. I care so much as I am raising 2 bloody excellent DS, and ‘gender preference’ usually makes out that boys turn into little monsters.

The sheer grotesque privilege it takes to be disappointed over a healthy, happy baby's sex (putting aside the weird sexism--the baby is a human, ffs) is stunning.

This.

Also, gender is fluid. What if your precious boy/ girl decides later in life that they are the opposite or indeed neither?

My strong view is that parenting should be as selfless as possible and the interests of the child come first. Obviously that is an ideal! But it means that parents really should be trying NOT have a preference. If they find they do, they should examine this and where it's coming from, in the interest of their future child (whatever gender/ sex they are!)

@BrumBoo

I can empathise with the people who do because some people are obviously desperate to have a particular gender which is evident by the fact that they keep trying!

Genuinely, how can you 'empathise' with people who are unhappy until they produce a child with the right kind of piss-hole? What actual fing difference does it make? People who have endless amount of children just because they don't have the right 'gender' are just awful, the poor kids they already have not being good enough .

I can empathise with them because I don't think about it in such terms as the child was born with the wrong piss hole and recognise there are probably complex reasons behind it!

I know a woman with lots of boys. I know she was a bit upset after she found out her last was a boy too...but she is an amazing mother, a real earth mother type. Perhaps some of her sons wouldn't be born if she had had a girl earlier on but she dotes on her children and I don't think they would ever feel like they weren't good enough.
I just know for her that the urge to have a girl is extremely strong...so yes I empathise with her because I don't think it would be a nice way to be feeling at times and she cannot help it!

To all of those saying it’s “always about wanting a girl”, this is a female dominated space. I’ve heard A LOT of (admittedly the more obnoxious) men say they want a boy. In fact my father in law’s first words when he walked into the room after the birth of my eldest daughter were to my husband and they were “I’m sorry you didn’t get your son boy, maybe next time”. Husband called him out for being obnoxious, but it’s not like it never gets said this way around either. Now, I was never arsed and I believe that my husband wasn’t either, but basically I think it makes sense that you’d want a child of your own gender. The problem is not that intrinsic desire, but the idea that it’s in some way “devastating”.