To think people think your a better person because of your job status/money?

[Worriedaboutcovid19]

Just musing really after a discussion with my partner.

I really wonder why money/job title has such an affect on the way people treat you as its so strange when you really think about it.

When you meet someone for first time they ask you what job you do, if you say something 'impressive' like a surgeon/solicitor the person asking instantly looks impressed and the you will get treated with much respect.

I thought thats because you obviously worked extremely hard and must be committed/consistent/have strong work ethics which are valuable skills in society that not everyone has.

However..

The same type of respect/admiration goes to people who are wealthy by luck/inheritance whatever.

Random Example: if your friend has invited another friend to joint you for a meal they may say "my friend 'molly' will be joining us for tea tonight. Her dad's the owner of warburtons bread."

Why is that relevant?!

Its not just socially either. It impacts your experiences in how you navigate the world.

I drive a 20 year old banger, own a house in a shit area and am a black woman. However I am also a professional on a very good salary but I am admittedly frugal and not bothered about big houses/cars. Not because I am moral, but because I prefer to waste my cash elsewhere (makeup, clothes and holidays tbh).

I've had several incidents when I've had to deal with professionals whilst wearing a tracksuit on a scruffy lazy day.

Incidents:

1. Getting rushed into hospital due to illness. The staff were kind of dismissive of me until my job title came up. Then suddenly when they realised I was quite a high up professional, the attitude completely changes and I have such good care. Then when admitted to a ward the doctor comes in with "ooh it says on your notes you do XYZ?" As if to say "your one of us, let's be friendly".

1. Again in a scruffy tracksuit and driving my banger car through a rough estate. I get into a car accident (other drivers fault completely).

The police show up. Treat me with utter disdain and suspicion. Ask where I was heading. So I tell them I was on my way home to get dressed to go to work after staying at a friend's. Police ask me where I work in a very abrupt manner. I tell them and suddenly I'm treated so well, asked how I am, comment on how hard my job must be and lots of banter/polite chit chat.

I was obviously prejudged. But prejudged as what? Not worthy of respect as I may be poor? Not a valuable person as I may work in an unskilled job or be unemployed?

These are just 2 incidents that stand out in a long chain.

I've also noticed I get the best treatment from my GP's. If I cant get an appointment they will email me to see if I would like one the next day which isn't typical protocol. They refer me instantly to other services if needed without being dismissive, ask me how the jobs going etc. Yet I know of 2 other people in low paid jobs in retail who have polar opposite experiences with the same surgery.

So I ask mumsnet why do you think this is?
Why do people value others based on job status and money?

There are people in my profession who are awful people as with any other job. There are people who work as a part time waitress/waiter who are lovely people.

Job and money literally have no bearing on how moral a human is. Its basic logic. Yet society still treat strangers better if they drive a range rover and live in a 5 bed house. Why? Putting them on a pedal stool won't suddenly make you rich too or give you the job/house they have.

Why is society like this?

I think some high-status jobs, and the paths you need to take to get to them, reinforce the idea that only other people with high-status jobs are worth speaking to. If you don't have a PhD or high-brow hobbies or a successful startup, you must be basic and boring and not with bothering about.

I used to work in software and I encountered various different types of this elitism: there were people who disdained anyone who couldn't code; the ones who had lived hyper-privileged lives and couldn't understand why anyone would need to claim benefits or work a minimum wage job; then there was my 'friend' who decided my fiancé wasn't "good enough" for me because he likes watching football, so must be a total loser. People can be incredibly judgemental, usually in ways that make them feel superior to others.

As an aside, I completely disagree with this:

And before anyone says that supermarket workers work as hard as lawyers, no they don’t. They may have intense hours of their job but they don’t take their job home and haven’t invested years of time and money in training to be able to do their job)

Like I said, I used to work in a fancy technical role in a fancy software company. Not the same as a lawyer, but fancy salary, high status and expectations to be available to the job at all times. I quit to retain in an entirely different career and worked for about 6 months as a Support Worker in a secure mental health ward. It is the hardest job I have ever done. The shift starts at 7.30am and finishes at 8pm. When you are rostered with a patient you cannot take a break, even to use the toilet, unless there is someone to cover you. It is emotionally draining to help patients talk about their emotional traumas and manage their highly volatile emotions 11 hours per day. To do the job well needed a huge amount of emotional intelligence and interpersonal skills. I got decent at this, but many of my colleagues were much better. Sometimes we had to physically restrain someone to stop them hurting themselves, which is exhausting and frightening.

No, there wasn't work to 'take home' at the end of the shift, but there wasn't much day left to take it home to either. I was privileged enough to have a car, so my commute was only 40 min, but several of my colleagues had 90 min journeys each way on public transport (I gave lifts where possible). I worked bank shifts while studying, but some of my colleagues worked 5+ days a week. Some worked with me at the weekend after working another job Monday - Friday.

That was an entry-level job that paid a bit better than minimum wage. And it was harder than a job that needed a PhD. Working years to get qualifications doesn't mean that you worked harder than everyone else or that you job is more important; it means that you now have the privilege of not having to do all of the most difficult bits!

@TheLightSideOfTheMoon

Nah, I work a minimum wage job and have no exciting qualifications.

I don't feel that anyone treats me differently because of it.

Sadly, OP, I suspect you're experiencing racism. I'm sorry. People can be disgusting.

In the gentlest way it’s usually when you say things like “I work in a hospital” people usually want to know what you do for a living.

The point OP is making is you could tell the same person you have two different job titles retail and then a pharmacist and the same person may speak to you in a very different manner... depending on which job title you disclosed at the time.

Completely agree. Actually had a (bad) friend who stopped hanging out with us when we didn’t have two pennies to rub together. We had just moved to a new city and were struggling financially, shared house, old banger of a car etc. Wants to be chummy again 7 years later now I’m a Director in a large company, and we live in a nicer area. Apparently we’d be ‘nice’ dinner party guests. She can forget it. Money doesn’t make a person 🤦‍♀️

@Love51

I want to know what high status job you have that gets you put on a 'pedal stool'?

Maybe she dries out damp squids?

Always felt that she would try and brush under the rug our (admittedly not the best) circumstances. Park down the street please! And would justify us being there by saying things like ‘she’s very educated, just carving out a niche when we hung out with her grammar school mates ’. Well screw you ex friend, having a 6 figure salary and a nice house doesn’t make me any better than I was years ago 😂 can you tell I’m bitter about this!!

People do judge based on money and perceived status. I've experienced it and have zero tolerance for it.

@naughtyelfs

DH & DB are accountants. Work for a MC law firm & big 4. Absolutely shite in a crisis *@Mintjulia* in a zombie apocalypse I will just have to leave them behind.

Can confirm, I'm an accountant and I'd definitely die first in a zombie apocalypse.

🤣🤣

Interesting point on race.

I grew up in a white middle class school as the only black girl in the countryside. Everyone knew everyone by first name. Same doctor since being small etc.

I was very surprised when I went to university qt 18 and some other black girls were telling another black girl to make sure she wore our university hoodie to her doctors appointment. I asked why and they said so 'the doctor will actually listen and know shes not some random ghetto girl. I was really taken aback. They were all from London and said their parents would always dress up in their best to go to the doctors. Their parents were foreign with accents and needed to look their best even when sick to make sure they weren't dismissed.

Unfortunately I can see now first hand its true.

It's the square community, man. They think The Dude is a loser.

I rarely mention in real life that I am a lawyer.

I find that hard to believe @xenia

I get this a lot. My job title is pretty grand on paper. People comment on it. In reality yes it is grand (in terms of my seniority and salary) but nothing to write home about in comparison to people who i feel work far harder than i do. My mum was a cleaner and we were poor. People openly looked down on us. She, though, deserved far more respect for the sacrifices she made for me than i ever would for basically logging on to a computer each day while in the comfort of my own home.

@InvisibleDragon you’ve taken my quote and then completely misinterpreted it. I was talking about supermarket workers, not care workers

@Worriedaboutcovid19
I know someone who is white, w/c and not British who said she does something similar - she is having treatment atm in a central London hospital and puts her make up , wears nice neck scarves;, etc each time he goes for treatment. She said she wants the doctors to see she is worth valuing.

Racism is the biggest driver here.

We live in a very affluent area, my black DH wears jogging bottoms a lot and he is followed around our local waitrose because as a young (ish) black male he fits their idea of criminality. I look more "middle class" I'm white, I never experience even half of what he does.

When they find out he has a senior job people are always surprised. At work he is constantly checked by security guards who ask to see his work badge. It's endless really. In many scenarios he needs to think about what to wear or how to behave so he looks less threatening and doesn't scare white people.

It's 2020 and this is a daily part of his life in London. Madness.

(It's true. I just like to move around below the radar with no one knowing that I do etc. It is self important people who go on about "do you know who I am" who are the silly ones).
As I live in an area where most people are not white and many are Asian professional, doctors etc I don't think we have quite the same skin colour issues. Eg if the security guard in our Waitrose concentrated on non white people he would have to split himself around half the store.

But given that 80% of the population is white, to be the minority isn't common all over the country . And in particular there's a well publicised problem with stop and search on black males who are disproportionately targeted by police.

This is an insight into what it might be like not to have the racial privilege I take for granted and, shamefully, haven't always been fully conscious of. This is the covert, socially 'acceptable' face of racism.

I'm very sorry OP that you've been subjected to this. It's a further, and possibly even more inescapable dimension to the disadvantages women face in not having 'male privilege': in my profession even the most senior women are consistently ranked below men in the satisfaction scores we are compelled to keep. Then there's the class issue we British are so hung up on. On making small talk with strangers or acquaintances, almost the first question people ask is about your career. Regional accent is also a big part of the way people make snap judgements about others on superficial acquaintance. I am very aware of being treated differently when I use the Dr title (no matter how I'm dressed).

The post upthread that really made me sad was the one about the black man being compelled to think through his style of dress very carefully in case his skin colour put him at risk of being mistaken for a criminal. I thought we were at a stage where the most overt forms of racism have been stamped upon - in football for instance - and some forms of language are definitely seen as unacceptable. But some of the real attitudes are simmering not so very far beneath the surface. It's shocking and sad.

@ShirleyPhallus ''(And before anyone says that supermarket workers work as hard as lawyers, no they don’t. They may have intense hours of their job but they don’t take their job home and haven’t invested years of time and money in training to be able to do their job)''

Here we go...

I think Covid has shown that the last thing society needs is another lawyer while we would be stuffed without people like supermarket workers, delivery drivers and so on...

[quote Requinblanc]@ShirleyPhallus ''(And before anyone says that supermarket workers work as hard as lawyers, no they don’t. They may have intense hours of their job but they don’t take their job home and haven’t invested years of time and money in training to be able to do their job)''

Here we go...

I think Covid has shown that the last thing society needs is another lawyer while we would be stuffed without people like supermarket workers, delivery drivers and so on...[/quote]
Where did I say that we couldn’t be without delivery drivers or supermarket workers? We couldn’t. In order for society to function we definitely do need those roles.

But working in a supermarket for a shift is just not as hard as working in a fast paced corporate environment like that. It isn’t. I have done both.

"(And before anyone says that supermarket workers work as hard as lawyers, no they don’t. They may have intense hours of their job but they don’t take their job home and haven’t invested years of time and money in training to be able to do their job)"

No supermarket workers don't work as hard as lawyers - however this does not diminish them and make them less worthy or less deserving of respect / good service etc.

A professional job doesn't mean that someone is more 'intelligent' and 'more interesting to talk to' either. What an utterly bizarre conflation. Some people chose not to pursue a traditionally high powered career despite possessing brains aplenty

No supermarket workers don't work as hard as lawyers - however this does not diminish them and make them less worthy or less deserving of respect / good service etc.

No one said they weren’t worth of respect / good service etc

A professional job doesn't mean that someone is more 'intelligent' and 'more interesting to talk to' either. What an utterly bizarre conflation. Some people chose not to pursue a traditionally high powered career despite possessing brains aplenty

What an absolute shame then that someone intelligent or brainy chooses to only for for a job at a supermarket rather than for something that they could utilise their intelligence, challenge themselves and make some money from it 🤷‍♀️

What an absolute shame then that someone intelligent or brainy chooses to only for for a job at a supermarket rather than for something that they could utilise their intelligence, challenge themselves and make some money from it

That's way too simplistic

"No one said they weren’t worth of respect / good service etc "

The whole premise of this thread ShirleyPhallus is that society confers more respect on those deemed to be wealthy or in a high powered career, which implies less respect / good service to supermarket workers etc

Its not an absolute shame if people choose not to 'use' their qualifications and intelligence to don a suit and briefcase - the purpose of education is to expand your horizons, to stimulate, to inform, its not just about slotting into a high earning career as deemed appropriate by the system. A mark of intelligence can be questioning prevailing norms and beliefs, and choosing to take your own path

Its not an absolute shame if people choose not to 'use' their qualifications and intelligence to don a suit and briefcase - the purpose of education is to expand your horizons, to stimulate, to inform, its not just about slotting into a high earning career as deemed appropriate by the system. A mark of intelligence can be questioning prevailing norms and beliefs, and choosing to take your own path

I’m not suggesting donning a suit and briefcase is the only option for someone who’s clever. Plenty of careers don’t use those - healthcare workers / artists / chefs for example are at the lower end of the pay spectrum but still use a huge range of skills and abilities.

But I stand by my point that if you had two people of absolute equal intelligence and no other factors at play (ie wealthy parents / opportunity)and one decided to be a lawyer and the other decided to work in a supermarket yes I do think that would be a shame. I don’t really believe that would happen, and obviously it’s far more complex IRL because so much of being in a corporate job is down to privilege in the first place but that gives more weight to the reasons of why it would be a shame.

We see it all the time on this forum though that women have children very young and end up in these low paid, low skill jobs because they feel like they don’t have any alternative. Also a shame.