To think people think your a better person because of your job status/money?

[Worriedaboutcovid19]

Just musing really after a discussion with my partner.

I really wonder why money/job title has such an affect on the way people treat you as its so strange when you really think about it.

When you meet someone for first time they ask you what job you do, if you say something 'impressive' like a surgeon/solicitor the person asking instantly looks impressed and the you will get treated with much respect.

I thought thats because you obviously worked extremely hard and must be committed/consistent/have strong work ethics which are valuable skills in society that not everyone has.

However..

The same type of respect/admiration goes to people who are wealthy by luck/inheritance whatever.

Random Example: if your friend has invited another friend to joint you for a meal they may say "my friend 'molly' will be joining us for tea tonight. Her dad's the owner of warburtons bread."

Why is that relevant?!

Its not just socially either. It impacts your experiences in how you navigate the world.

I drive a 20 year old banger, own a house in a shit area and am a black woman. However I am also a professional on a very good salary but I am admittedly frugal and not bothered about big houses/cars. Not because I am moral, but because I prefer to waste my cash elsewhere (makeup, clothes and holidays tbh).

I've had several incidents when I've had to deal with professionals whilst wearing a tracksuit on a scruffy lazy day.

Incidents:

1. Getting rushed into hospital due to illness. The staff were kind of dismissive of me until my job title came up. Then suddenly when they realised I was quite a high up professional, the attitude completely changes and I have such good care. Then when admitted to a ward the doctor comes in with "ooh it says on your notes you do XYZ?" As if to say "your one of us, let's be friendly".

1. Again in a scruffy tracksuit and driving my banger car through a rough estate. I get into a car accident (other drivers fault completely).

The police show up. Treat me with utter disdain and suspicion. Ask where I was heading. So I tell them I was on my way home to get dressed to go to work after staying at a friend's. Police ask me where I work in a very abrupt manner. I tell them and suddenly I'm treated so well, asked how I am, comment on how hard my job must be and lots of banter/polite chit chat.

I was obviously prejudged. But prejudged as what? Not worthy of respect as I may be poor? Not a valuable person as I may work in an unskilled job or be unemployed?

These are just 2 incidents that stand out in a long chain.

I've also noticed I get the best treatment from my GP's. If I cant get an appointment they will email me to see if I would like one the next day which isn't typical protocol. They refer me instantly to other services if needed without being dismissive, ask me how the jobs going etc. Yet I know of 2 other people in low paid jobs in retail who have polar opposite experiences with the same surgery.

So I ask mumsnet why do you think this is?
Why do people value others based on job status and money?

There are people in my profession who are awful people as with any other job. There are people who work as a part time waitress/waiter who are lovely people.

Job and money literally have no bearing on how moral a human is. Its basic logic. Yet society still treat strangers better if they drive a range rover and live in a 5 bed house. Why? Putting them on a pedal stool won't suddenly make you rich too or give you the job/house they have.

Why is society like this?

I prefer to potter along in disguise as a yokel peasant.

@Xmassprout

I don't think its necessarily job status, but also if your job sounds interesting as well. My previous job I was relatively low level but it sounded really interesting and people were also keen to hear more.

My current job is entry level and the pay is piss poor, but people like the sound of it and it involves animals so again people always show an interest in me

OP didn't talk about finding someone interesting,or good to talk to ,becoming best buddies or whatever.

She's talking about basic respect and common decency for everyone,no matter how they look or what job they do.

As depressing as it is, pretending that a lack of respect for poor people,disadvantaged people, people in poorly paid jobs etc doesn't exist is wishful thinking.

Because we are social animals (primates), OP?
We are pack animals & mapping relative social status is ingrained in our social radar.

I love to be under-estimated, so doesn't bother me in the slightest if it happens to me. I rarely interact with police or doctors so can't contribute any anecdotes.

Flash to a memory of childhood & being ignored when trying to get customer service: I always try to encourage children go first if waiting in Qs at a cafe counter or somesuch. They easily get overlooked as customers.

@LardeeLar

Jobs dont tell you what a person's value is, but they can tell you what their values are.

Do they? Do they really?

Because some of the most respectable or well paid jobs are rife with drug use,abuse , alcoholism, bullying etc.

Because a lot of people consider financial value when they judge someone's worth

This. I think it depends on where you live, but if you live in quite an affluent aspirational area, people completely judge you on income (size of house, type of car etc).

In the OP's case I am afraid skin colour almost certainly plays a role too. We've had plenty of threads on here about the assumption that if a man and a woman walk into a room together the man must be in the more senior job. It happens if a white (or Asian or Chinese) person and a black person walks into the room too, they will assume the black person is in the less highly regarded job. Combine black with female - and well.

But you're right OP - if you have a car that works and a house that you like why would you buy another car or house for the sake of it just to meet other peoples' expectations of what you "should" be doing for your income level?

Nah, I work a minimum wage job and have no exciting qualifications.

I don't feel that anyone treats me differently because of it.

Sadly, OP, I suspect you're experiencing racism. I'm sorry. People can be disgusting.

I live in Denmark and now only speak english to healthcare professionals as I get taken seriously. If I speak danish I have an accent and get simililarly dismissive treatment. DH speaks like a country bumpkin and doesnt make eye contact and asks really stupid questions and gets treated poorly.

I agree with you Op. I am the same person irrespective of what I earn or where I live yet my experience is the majority of people do treat you differently.
I took a career break as a solicitor and worked on retail part time for a year due stresses elsewhere in my life. The way people treated me that year -at work and people I met outside of work- was so different. Yet I was still exactly the same person. Still had two first class degrees. Still had the same values and interest in the world. It really shocked me. And many of the people I worked with in retail that year (a bookshop) were brilliant interesting people. Whereas there are some truly dreadful people who are solicitors (and some aren't even that bright).

I went to a top private school where the super rich sent their kids. Unfortunately I was from a " normal" family as dad taught there so we got refuced fees. Needless to say, I was an outsider.
It has given me a valuable insight into the rich ( and put me off capitalism ). The main observation is that the rich behave no better than the poor. Rich children are just as likely to take drugs, shirk homework and behave badly in class as poorer kids. In fact, one of my classmates was drinking vodka in our English lesson in year 9 ( never seen this in any state school where I taught for years.) Lots of my mates were doing speed in the school toilets in year 10/11.
However, if you are wearing an Armarni suit and getting picked up from school in a Rolls then it is easier for the school to pretend that there isn't an issue.

Also rich kids can be spiteful on a different level to other normal kids. They exude an aura of confidence that other people are in awe (and rather frightened of). They really do believe they are superior.
Lastly the rich never let anyone into their circle( unless they supply good drugs.)

Di

Ooops

So yeah..the rich think they are better than the poor ( even though they behave no better.) I know that this a controversial statement but i believe that if you want to become rich through work you cannot be a " nice" person. Nice prople do not get rich. Nice people choose lower paid, worthy jobs then do not rise up the ladder as they are too" nice." Hence the reason why i am poor.

@malificent7 yes a lot of my university /law school friends went to schools like that and their stories really shocked me (I went to a "naice' comprehensive)

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale

I live in Denmark and now only speak english to healthcare professionals as I get taken seriously. If I speak danish I have an accent and get simililarly dismissive treatment. DH speaks like a country bumpkin and doesnt make eye contact and asks really stupid questions and gets treated poorly.

Wow, that's quite shocking. They show less respect to somebody who has mastered Danish, albeit with an accent, than they do to somebody who lives in Denmark but wanders around speaking English.

That is the polar opposite of Spain. You walk in to a chemist there and ask for what you need in Spanish not English and the respect doubles instantly.

When I was younger I would have thought you were being too sensitive.
Sadly now I agree with you.
I now live in a new part of the world where I cannot rely on familial reputation/connection. I am no longer seen as one from the “roastedsaltedpeanut” family but just a random woman. Suddenly I feel I have to prove to others my worth so I receive the same level of respect that I am used to.
But this is to be expected. It is the good old “us” vs “them” dichotomy. The classification of “us” is most easily derived from profession, educational level and wealth. This would most likely lead to similar views and principles.

I now have to actively advertise, for lack of better word, myself so that I am able to find like minded people and allow others to pigeonhole me in a category. It is what it is.

Rich children are just as likely to take drugs, shirk homework and behave badly in class as poorer kids

Yep white rich kid caught with drugs slap on the wrist. Black kid on a estate.... definitely racism & classism.

I hear you OP. I’ve been treated poorly plenty of times prior to people figuring out “who/what” I am. I’m white and I put it down to being a relatively attractive female. I have no doubt it’s exacerbated for POC.

It’s marginally improved as I’ve arrived into my 40s but still regular enough to have me rolling my eyes.

In particular I’ve owned and sold a (very) successful business. Despite the fact it was in an area where I have expertise (tech/law) and DH has none virtually everyone assumes it was his business and I often get told how lucky I am when he “treats” me

@SandysMam

Because people with a high up job are more likely to be able to articulate a complaint as they are intelligent, may have friends in high places.

THIS !

Getting rushed into hospital due to illness. The staff were kind of dismissive of me until my job title came up. Then suddenly when they realised I was quite a high up professional, the attitude completely changes and I have such good care.

This, so much this. It always irritates the fuck out of me when doctors ask my job when it has literally no bearing on my medical treatment or condition. There are times it makes sense, like discharging from hospital and discussing when you are able to go back to work, but most of the time the question is completely irrelevant and serves no purpose other than to allow doctors to express their prejudices.

Yes there are exceptions, for example needing to know if you could have been exposed to dangerous chemicals at work when you present with a skin rash for example. But most of the time I can't think of any consultations where it made any difference.

At my surgery a very clever woman used the title Doctor to get preferential treatment. Always got squeezed into the doctors lunch break if there were no appointments left. It was hilarious to come to him with special requests, "can you see a patient as an extra, it's urgent because of X reason" and he would snap back about how his free time was protected and how dare we ask....."but it's for Dr X"...."oh in that case of course".

Turns out she wasn't a medical doctor, but a doctor of philosophy who lectured at uni. She was very smart to cotton on and use her title to make the GP think she was one of them! (Not at all saying one is better than the other, but the GP wouldn't have pandered to her if he knew!)

To answer OPs question, people spend most of their lives climbing a career ladder trying to out to each other, to get the best car, best house, best holidays and then post about it on Facebook. Job titles are a sort of clue as to how people are doing in context of this ridiculous rat race we've created. People assume a bin man can't live in a posh area and send their kids to private school but a solicitor probably can. Often people are way off the mark with this assumption and it drives me mad.

I think this works if you have an interesting sounding job too.
My job sounds quite interesting despite not being highly paid, and I always get quizzed on it if it comes up.

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale

I live in Denmark and now only speak english to healthcare professionals as I get taken seriously. If I speak danish I have an accent and get simililarly dismissive treatment. DH speaks like a country bumpkin and doesnt make eye contact and asks really stupid questions and gets treated poorly.

This is very interesting and similar to my experiences. I was worked on a fundraising campaign for Oxford university. We had to telephone ex students and beg for handouts to fund scholarships and I noticed the people with "posh" accents (or whatever the correct term is for how the Queen speaks) did loads better than those of us with strong regional dialects. A few of us who weren't doing so well listened in to the calls of these successful people and they were embarrassingly bad, full of cringe inducing awkward conversation...yet they still earned more money. I can only guess that people respect upper class accents more than regional ones, and there must have been a lot of snobbish people on the telephone list we had.

Sorry for typos, can't get used to the app rather than browser

I think part of it is to do with our tribal attitudes as humans. When they assume you are from a different area, have a different culture and are not highly educated you are seen as not part of the Doctors/lawyers/policeman’s ‘tribe’ you are ‘othered’.
When they realise you are actually middle class and work in a similar job to their friends and colleagues and have a similar educational background suddenly you are one of them.

“Job and money literally have no bearing on how moral a human is. Its basic logic. Yet society still treat strangers better if they drive a range rover and live in a 5 bed house. Why? Putting them on a pedal stool won't suddenly make you rich too or give you the job/house they have.”

The type of person who make snap judgements in this way are not interested in peoples level of morality though. They are invested in enhancing their own social status. If that means being friendly to someone who they judge to have high socioeconomic status and contemptuous towards someone they believe to be beneath them, they’ll do just that. If they realise their initial judgement was wrong, they will change their attitude towards that person accordingly. Sad but true.

To be honest I think race (as awful as it is) is playing a bigger part in this than your job title. Then when they realise you're a professional they warm to you.

When you meet someone for first time they ask you what job you do ^^

Absolutely this OP. I’ve read your examples and I couldn’t agree more.

People generally want to find out what you do (early on to paint a picture and gauge) let’s not pretend and the higher in your job role you are the more you will be viewed as respectable from a society's point of view (which may not be true).