To be overwhelmed at this level of extended breastfeeding?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

I belong to a FB group for extended breast feeders (from when I was breastfeeding my 3 year old) and a thread just popped up on my newsfeed where a woman was celebrating her daughter’s 6th birthday and saying how she still breast fed her.

As I read the comments they were all lovely and supportive and other women came forward saying they were still feeding their 8, 9, 10 year olds (and some even older).

I won’t lie - I was surprised that breastfeeding continued for that length of time in some families, not that there’s any specific reason why it shouldn’t, but I was genuinely taken aback. I was a bit in awe really of the women who were continuing despite probably feeling it was viewed as something they ‘shouldn’t’ be doing.

When I was breastfeeding my 3 year old my husband would make the odd comment about our son “being too old for that now” so I can’t imagine what he’d have thought if I’d carried on for much longer. I suppose that’s due to the UK’s societal and cultural attitudes towards extended breastfeeding though.

AIBU to be so astonished by this?

Does anyone know anyone who has breastfed for that long or done it themselves?

I would love to understand the reality of it, and learn about the emotions/reasons behind it, and especially how the mothers cope with any negative attitudes they face - of which I imagine most sadly do.

Don't forget the support groups for cancer/ mastectomy having images removed and tattooists who do nipples (a really inventive thing) having pics taken down.

Breasts are there to feed babies.

In our society their function as sexy things for men, the fetishisation causes real problems for girls and women.

Don't forget the support groups for cancer/ mastectomy having images removed and tattooists who do nipples (a really inventive thing) having pics taken down.
Seriously! I'm not surprised, but that says it all.

It really does highlight that the dominant view is 'women's boobs are to be gawped at'.

@LolaSmiles is a bloody legend and said everything my fingers were itching to type as I read through all the total hypocrisy and false dichotomies of the post she replied to. Thank you!!

To the poster who would like to feed longer but wants a drink - although metabolisms vary, it it's estimated that when you're at the drink/drive limit your milk is about as alcoholic as orange juice. So if you'd give your child OJ you're grand to drink and feed. But if you want to stop, just go ahead and stop - you don't need a reason!!

And yes what is this idea bf is a child's only means of being comforted? When my DD wants comfort from me nowadays she wants close physical contact and cuddles (probably throwback to our bf days really). When my DP is comforting her she wants her tears wiped, a drink of water and to talk it out but not so much cuddling. When she's at school she wants something else again and usually that's to be left alone to calm herself down.

Bf is a tool in the arsenal - not the be all and end all. And what I don't understand is why as soon as it is not essential we are supposed to jettison it.

We don't stop cuddling once children are old enough to understand the words "I love you". So why should we stop bf just because they can feed themselves, for example? The only reason is if you think bf is in some some way harmful rather than enriching. But no-one has been able to articulate how it is harmful, except to say it keeps children "babies" too long (which anyone who has actually fed a growing, developing, advancing toddler/preschooler/schoolchild could tell you is utter bollocks).

Not a legend, just a grumpy mum who is increasingly pissed off at the amount of times women seem to have their boobs commented on like they are public property. I'll take it though because this week has been a rough one on the old nipples.

I wouldn't want to breastfeed to school age, but it really doesn't matter if people I know do. The negative impact on society is much bigger from people with the 'eewwwie boobies' attitude than the minority of women who nurse their children to natural term.

@NiceGerbil

Is this still going wow.

On boozing. You can. Any drink you have is really watered down. It's not the same mechanism as when pregnant when they're sharing your blood.

Good to know lol. I figured they would be getting all the chemicals but as you say it's not directly from the blood stream. Would prob still wait a bit tho, who knows, maybe I'll be dying for a night out 🤣

I really don't get it either.

I'm the least earth mothery person ever. I BF both of mine for 13 months (which I wouldn't see as 'extended') and at the end it was one feed a night at bedtime. There were comments earlier about it interfering with work but mostly as the child gets bigger, feeding becomes more efficient and once it's not their only source of food it drops right off.

My own mother was saying when are you going to stop, from 6 months. Why? I don't get it. We all see mammals on the telly feeding, have pets that feed. We get milk from cows and sometimes goats and sheep, to make cheese. To put in tea. Pour over cereal... I really don't get why that is fine but a woman feeding her own baby past X months is abnormal/ objectionable etc etc

FWIW I'm not on a 'side' of this and I found the stuff around it from both NCT and NHS antenatally unhelpful. Also on here when DD1 was small some women were really awful. It's just so extreme really. Which is not what women need when they're going through birth, babies etc etc

My final point about BF is that I had pnd and it went on for ages. If I hadn't BF my babies would not have had all that close time with me holding them, looking at them. Which would have been bad for both of us.

I've only just finished BF my 21 month old he self weaned.
Whilst it's unusual to get to, 7/8/9 etc I also don't think it's anyone else's business.

The public perception that BF past 6 months is wrong is ridiculous. In fact coronavirus advice around BF was carry on if possible due to the antibody protection it provides.

So for all those ignorant posts of its disgusting or once they hold a spoon etc I suggest educating yourselves and stop being so judgemental on something that has zero effect on you.

What I don't get is that after 6 months ish it becomes much easier. They are more efficient, you're used to it etc. It's free. So then you stop? Once the tricky bit is done and the easy bit starts?

Seems perverse tbh ( in the older meaning of the word).

My final point about BF is that I had pnd and it went on for ages. If I hadn't BF my babies would not have had all that close time with me holding them, looking at them. Which would have been bad for both of us

[Flowers] i hope you're feeling better now!

I had s traumatic birth ending in a section. Bf was SO important to my recovery from that. I know, so awful that I was feeding her in any way "for me". Funny how "happy mum, happy baby" only applies if FF...

This is a really awful post OP, you should be ashamed of yourself. You've joined a group for Extending Breastfeeding, where other nursing mothers can feel safe to talk about their journey, get and give support, and you've extrapolated their story and transposed it to MN to have your disparaging feelings about it validated.

If I was admin in that group I'd remove you.

I also agree with the poster above. If this thread shows anything it shows why these groups are needed - women who breastfeed past "the norm" are so vilified. We need safe spaces to talk to each other. By transferring the question onto a public forum like this you have definitely breached trust and (I would imagine) the rules of the group.

tbtf

Firstly, I have never disparaged extended breastfeeding. I said I was overwhelmed by the concept and that even though there is nothing wrong with it, I was surprised women did it to that age. In fact far from disparaging the mothers, I commended them for having the strength to continue in the face of the adversity they probably face - which judging by the awful comments I’ve read on here, is probably quite common. They have more strength than I had when it comes to being honest about breastfeeding after the ‘acceptable’ age by society’s standards.

Secondly, I have said that I recognise how breastfeeding older children is about comfort and love, and again have been far from disparaging about it.

Thirdly, as my posts show, I have fully supported the posts that discuss how judgemental society is in relation to breastfeeding and how something that is natural is considered shameful past a certain age.

Finally, I don’t belong to the group anyway. I had completely forgotten I was part of it until that post flashed up and I removed myself seeing as I am no longer breastfeeding.

The point of my post was because I wanted to learn more about extended breastfeeding, hence why asking if anyone still did it. And I have learnt more about it and sadly, learnt more about the negative attitudes of people towards breastfeeding and especially that of older children.

@ThornAmongstRoses

I'll let you have the last word babe but we both know you started this thread to instigate a pile on

@ThornAmongstRoses

The point of my post was because I wanted to learn more about extended breastfeeding, hence why asking if anyone still did it. And I have learnt more about it and sadly, learnt more about the negative attitudes of people towards breastfeeding and especially that of older children

Sorry but this is MASSIVELY disingenuous.

So you joined a group about extended breastfeeding, presumably recieved good info and support there while feeding; stopped feeding and forgot about it; it popped something up on your feed about extended breastfeeding into later childhood which piqued your interest and you 'wanted to learn more about extended breastfeeding'.

So you... left the group full of extended breastfeeders, including several who had self-declared feeding to these later ages that you found so interesting, and instead brought the conversation to Mumsnet (who it absolutely stands to reason would be made up mostly of women who had either never breastfed or breastfed for a very short amount of time) so you could 'learn more about extended breastfeeding'??

Pull the other one mate, it is having bells on.

But as those who bf as long as their child wants to are so often pilloried as sick, depraved, mentally ill or borderline perverts, it bears reminding that this is actually totally normal for mammals, primates and indeed large numbers of human beings the world over. It's only in westernised societies that it's seen as abnormal. So if natural isn't the right word to use in defense, it's hard to think of a better one

Though I wonder how much EBFing in some less westernised societies also relates to food insecurity or lack of access to contraception (not that the tendency of BFing to delay menstruation is a reliable option - but its better than nothing!), which aren't really issues for us. Also I'm guessing there are very different attitudes to individual bodily autonomy and the role of fathers at play. I know I stopped BFing around the 13 month mark partly because I wanted my body back, and partly because DS1 was a horror sleeper & we as parents wanted to share the sleeping & settling load evenly. Personally I'm very glad to live in culture where I was allowed to want those things and to act on them, and I'm not overly fussed that very different - and often very patriarchal - cultures do very different things.

Also - genuine question not trolling - how many cultures routinely breastfeed to the ages the OP mentions ("still feeding their 8, 9, 10 year olds (and some even older)"?

It's not so much that it's done as a conscious protection against those issues, more that it was the norm for most of human history and is still the norm in some societies.

We are the ones who have a different trend, and while better sanitation, food availability, contraception etc are part of that and choice is obviously a positive too, the main things that have reduced breastfeeding rates and duration (and do worldwide) are industrialisation and breastmilk substitute marketing.

Though I wonder how much EBFing in some less westernised societies also relates to food insecurity or lack of access to contraception (not that the tendency of BFing to delay menstruation is a reliable option - but its better than nothing!), which aren't really issues for us

These are not major issues in Scandinavia, where the bf rates and culture are staggeringly better - because the govt and health service took a principled stand to really support bf. Scandinavia also has some of the most gender-equal societies in the world, so your point about patriarchy doesn't stand up either. It is perfectly possible to support women to do what many of them want to do (breastfeed their children) whilst at the same time supporting other women to do what THEY want to do (not/stop breastfeeding their children).

I would be delighted to live in a society where there was free choice for women in terms of breastfeeding or not. But it's pretty astounding to look at a thread full of people castigating and reviling women for wanting to feed their children past infancy and claim what a wonderful tolerant woman-friendly society it is because it supported YOUR right to stop when you were ready.

Also - genuine question not trolling - how many cultures routinely breastfeed to the ages the OP mentions ("still feeding their 8, 9, 10 year olds (and some even older)"?

No-one is saying this is routine, bf dyads that go in that long are quite clearly outliers but no more disturbing or horrendous for that. We are talking about an absolutely tiny minority, who will have their reasons. Some kids potty train at 1, some are still in nappies starting school, and the vast majority get there eventually. Same with breastfeeding.

As it goes I would be surprised if in the cases of children bf past the natural window for self-weaning (around 3-7) there weren't some SEN at play that were supported by the ongoing comfort of breastfeeding, like some SEN kids benefit from weighted blankets and other sensory support that might seem odd or childish to parents of neurotypical children.

Also I night-weaned my child at 18 months - DH and I shared night wakings from that point. I also went back to work at 11 mths and continued to breastfeed her until 2.5yrs. BF isn't all or nothing!!! People think it's either you stop when they wean/when you go back to work and 'take your body back', or you become a cow-like slave to the child until they're done with you (or apparently that you become so dependent on the validation of bf that you keep foisting it onto your child into their teens 'for your own benefit' ).

It is a RELATIONSHIP, and every breastfeeding dyad is different. For some day weaning is important, for others night weaning, for some there are no rules and just go with the flow, frequency comes and goes at different times for different reasons... it's flexible. Or not, depnding on how the mother chooses to play it. The key thing is that both parties are happy and learn to respect each other's role in the relationship.

The reason I'm so passionate about this is that I absolutely do resent that due to family pressure I was forced to stop bf before I or my daughter wanted to. That family pressure was rooted in these horrible negative societal attitudes to bf. So people making out that their concerns are all about 'women's choices and freedom' whilst reviling women who choose to bf for longer than they did just reek of hypocrisy to me.

There is more than one way to be free, pretty much by definition.

And as others have pointed out, even in our own society mothers have been prevented from breastfeeding their own children by the institution of wet-nursing and breastfeeding being portrayed as something animalistic and lower class, not for well-bred women (medieval and Victorian high society).

The actual reason for this was to separate women from their children, restore them to their status as posession/ornament, and get them back in the marital bed and impregnatable as soon as possible. women would have babies year on year until it killed them without the natural window of contraception provided by breastfeeding (yes this is not a foolproof window, but the combination of amennorrhea and the common effect of a hormonally- induced reduction in female sex-drive works well in the animal kingdom, where sex only tends to happen when the females are sexually receptive/ fertile).

So not breastfeeding is not inherently a woman-positive choice. See also the seldom publicised health benefits to women of breastfeeding e.g. protection from breast cancer. These benefits increase the longer you breastfeed. They are rarely referenced precisely because it is so reviled to suggest that women might actually want to breastfeed for reasons of their own, as well as (for a tiny authorised window) 'for the baaaaaybyyyy'.

AND ANOTHER THING...! The poster who said no other animals nurse two litters in tandem - see wallabies, kangaroos etc. Multiple generations fed at the same time. Also observed in primates where ongoing bf of older young seems to serve a social and bonding purpose.

I KNOW that this a thread about extended breastfeeding but I would like to put my two pence in and say I could only breastfeed for 3 months and that was a push. My DS was quite an ill baby and I stopped on medical advice. A friend from my NCT couldn't breastfeed at all. We both got judged, has snide remarks, disapproving looks at the formula.

So it does happen both ways. Some people will always find a way to shit on someone else whether it is breast feeding, formula feeding, baby led weaning, purees, co-sleeping and on and on. A little more kindness and acceptance in the world wouldn't go amiss.

I think you're exactly right Pixie, kindness both ways. Wouldn't occur to me to judge a mother formula feeding her baby, I'm sorry people were mean to you.