To wonder how the hell to raise well behaved children

[theantsgomarchin]

I have one DS and am pregnant with DC2. I have worked with babies for many years, but my time on MN is making me increasingly concerned about how the hell I raise my own children to be polite, well mannered and well behaved children / adults.

My parents were wonderful but very much hands off so can't say if necessarily follow their lead with similar results (they raised 4 well behaved children who are now all relatively high achieving adults) but the sceptic in me just thinks that's bloody good luck (to which they whole heartedly agree, we've had many hilarious conversations about it over the years)

But come on MN help a girl out. What parenting style do I take to ensure my kids aren't, for want of a better word, horrible little shits.

It's 90% nature and 10% nurture. If the child is predisposed to behave badly, it's unlikely you'll be able to change much. But the 10% you can control is important: discipline, discipline, discipline. Set them firm boundaries and make sure you punish them every time they breach them.

Pukkatea it would be helpful if you has said at age 14 in your post, I think OP is talking here about things mainly with younger children not teens.

The food thing I did acknowledge your example was excessive.you didnt mention being forced to eat food you were intolerant to in your post, you said food you didn't like. Theres a big difference and young children do often have to be encouraged to eat healthy food that isnt their favourite.

If a badly behaved kid is really just an emotionally uncontained kid ...

... then I think there is something about being raised by a parent who can contain themselves emotionally most of the time which in turn helps to raise children who can contain themselves emotionally most of the time and manage their behaviour.

Other times though I think it's luck too ...

@Bumpsadaisie

If a badly behaved kid is really just an emotionally uncontained kid ...

... then I think there is something about being raised by a parent who can contain themselves emotionally most of the time which in turn helps to raise children who can contain themselves emotionally most of the time and manage their behaviour.

Other times though I think it's luck too ...

Yes it true but I wonder if the dc has inherited that characteristic from their parent or are they modelling the behaviour.

It's the nature v nurture debate.

I see a lot of my father's characteristics in my ds but he died before he met him so he wasn't directly influenced by him...and I do not have that particular character trait so it's not from me.

I’m a strong believer in treat your children and behave in a way that you expect and want them to behave.

Treat them with respect. Speak to them politely. Even when they’re in trouble - no need to shout at them.

(I fail at this many times and notice that they copy my poor behaviour at times 😂)

Teach basic good manners, listen to what they tell you, and don't be dismissive of their concerns. Remember that things which seem trivial to an adult can loom very large in a child's life.
Have clear expectations, and follow through with any threats.
Give reasonable choices that you can live with. (We once chose five fabrics that we were happy with, and then asked our young son which one he wanted for his bedroom.)
Work with your child's teachers and don't go storming into school every time your child is disciplined.
Above all, make sure they know they are loved.

I think there is a lot to be said for modelling the behaviour you want to see. You and their dad treat each other with respect for example - please and thank you to each other, and same to kids. Be clear that no means no. Expect pushback but stay firm but always kind. Apologise if you snap. They need to learn how humans behave and that they are not always perfect.
Listen to them when they are small, and they will confide in you when they get big. I also think overstimulation has a bad effect on children's behaviour. They really don't need the TV on all day, for example.
Mine are adults now. They are all really nice people. I think keep in mind you are growing adults, and the bumps in the road along the way (the odd tantrum/answering back/trouble at school etc) are temporary, provided they are not met with your own hysteria.

I think kindness is the most important personality trait to encourage in a child, that comes with tolerance though so I would try to get out of the mindset of children being 'little shits' because they don't behave in a way that you perceive to be 'good'.

@Goldenbear

I think kindness is the most important personality trait to encourage in a child, that comes with tolerance though so I would try to get out of the mindset of children being 'little shits' because they don't behave in a way that you perceive to be 'good'.

Not sure i agree entirely. Kindness needs to be balanced imo. So I teach politeness and consideration. However, when my dc were small and we'd go to baby/toddler groups at the park, I was constantly telling my dc to share and wait their turn but I found other parents weren't. In the end I felt like I was actually being really unfair to my own dc. So for example, my dc would be waiting for a toy and then once it became free start playing with it, another child would grab it and the parent wouldn't interject so I'd be telling my own dc to share whilst other dc weren't being told the same thing. Children need to learn how to balance kindness without massively neglecting themselves in the process.

Firm boundaries. Strict routine which is stuck to. Lead by example. Demonstrate high expectations and challenge behaviour.

Has worked for us. DS started work recently. I know a couple of people at the same place and they give me discreet feedback and say how well he is thought of, polite, well mannered and hard working and gets lots of positive feedback (not that he ever tells us any of this!)

MIL would probably prescribe regular beatings.

However my method (which has worked so far) is to not be too strict about most things, allow plenty of making choices, but come down consistently hard on rudeness and behaviour which is selfish or harms others.

Sanctions should be carrot and stick (extra treats for good behaviour, withdrawal of privileges for poor behaviour).

Don’t go for “gentle parenting” as it leads to badly behaved, self-centred little shits.

I’ll second the routine, emphasis on sharing and tell them you love them every day too.

But... //hoiks judgy pants up with real examples// I’m astounded by the lack of respect some of the parents of my eight year old’s classmates will tolerate. So: coming out of school, throwing their belongings at them, being impolite or rude (“Oi, where’s my food?”, not answering a question even vaguely politely etc) and no feedback - my kids might do that, but I insist on a please or say “excuse me, who do you think you are” or “you can have a snack once you’ve answered my very simple question - shall we go x or y way home”. Just one example but I see it at other times too.

Whoever wrote the above has clearly been very lucky with their DC. As pp have said, it's important to parent the child you have, not the child you wish you had (or want people to think you have). I think it's also important to parent according to what you want to achieve for your child which is not always what makes you look like the better parent to onlookers. My DS quite often comes out of school behaving exactly as described above. He is very immature for his age and tends to be quite over excited as he comes out of school. I could stop him in his tracks and pull him up on how he has spoken to me, but this would not get through to him in his over-excited state and would draw attention to his immaturity to the other children. Other parents would see that I don't think his rudeness to me is acceptable but DS would probably over-react and be judged by his peers. Instead I say nothing at the time and start walking home, After he's had a few minutes to calm down we discuss what happened and how he would like to be spoken to etc.

Hesnotlocal
Is he NT? Is your strategy of waiting to speak to him about how you would like to be spoken to working in terms of improving his manners?

Ps I dont see what the issue is with a child being judged by peers. Isnt that sort of a good incentive for them to behave better?

Not pulling your child up on bad behaviour because you think it won't get through to them...hmmm...maybe ask yourself if that attitude has maybe lead to said bad behaviour?

My DC would never Chuck their school bags at me leaving school, and if they did they'd be getting told loudly and in front of their peers not to be so disrespectful.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Ps I dont see what the issue is with a child being judged by peers. Isnt that sort of a good incentive for them to behave better?

Yes, it is, spot on!

Controversial... but keep dc away from technology as much as possible!
It will eventually be inevitable, but let that be as late as possible. Encourage them to appreciate nature, animals, elderly, people of different cultures. Expose them to books, sports, arts. Listen to them, and make sure they know that problems are solved through talking and negotiation. Talk to them as responsible young people, they will just assume that is what they are.

You probably only have until DC is 12 to get all the good values in there. So use that time wisely.

I have 2 children both wildly different you have to parent the child you have.
My husband often struggles with the youngest as the oldest is very compliant but the younger one likes to challenge - you have to manage how they are. And adjust your expectations!

Every child looks obnoxious occasionally. They're allowed to have moods.

Modelling empathy and listening skills alongside a steely consequences system is helpful. Ultimately I think your kids are either like the parent (hopefully reasonably considerate and restrained) or they're taking advantage because the parent doesn't insist they observe the parents' standards and show how to attain them. I am usually lovely to my kids until they take advantage of it and then they meet the steely consequences, but they understand why. I also apologise when necessary which goes a long way. We all make mistakes. Your child isn't a product. There is no recipe you can follow for the flavour you desire. Sometimes their little circuits blow and there's little you can do.

I try to parent with an eye to the conscience I want them to have one day-somewhere between permissive and punitive. Realistic.

How to talk so your kids will listen is a great book.

Boundaries - what is acceptable, and what is not are absolutely clear..
I have never punished mine, they know what is acceptable and what isn't. I don't take things from them, instead I praise the good and let them know I am deeply disappointed in the not good behaviour. Praise is earned, and rewarded.

As pp have said, it's important to parent the child you have, not the child you wish you had (or want people to think you have).

This. With bells on.

Reading other posts has reminded me of the Jesuit saying ‘give me a boy until he is 7, and I will give you the man’. I have a number of issues with Jesuit teachings but I think that this holds true in the sense that a good character is formed very early on.

Sorry missed a bit out
*Praise is earned, and good behaviour rewarded