To wonder how the hell to raise well behaved children

[theantsgomarchin]

I have one DS and am pregnant with DC2. I have worked with babies for many years, but my time on MN is making me increasingly concerned about how the hell I raise my own children to be polite, well mannered and well behaved children / adults.

My parents were wonderful but very much hands off so can't say if necessarily follow their lead with similar results (they raised 4 well behaved children who are now all relatively high achieving adults) but the sceptic in me just thinks that's bloody good luck (to which they whole heartedly agree, we've had many hilarious conversations about it over the years)

But come on MN help a girl out. What parenting style do I take to ensure my kids aren't, for want of a better word, horrible little shits.

Mine are in their 30s and seem to be nice, functioning members of society. I think it's very much down to luck of the draw, but here's what we did (or didn't do...).

• They knew they were loved unconditionally - we told them (as I wasn't told growing up, I was aware how important it is).
• We always ate together and had long, rambling conversations over the dining table about anything and everything - it taught them communication skills, that people have different perspectives and how to think critically.
• As parents, we gave our kids much more freedom than most kids have now. They were taught to risk assess in a way that kids aren't now. Luckily they survived...

There was no social media when my children were growing up and I think that made things much easier. Also less pressure from school.

When you say no tell them why so they understand. Then stick to it. Do not do empty threats.

Rules and boundaries which are enforced consistently, with repercussions if the rules are broken. Alongside this, plenty of positive reinforcement for desired behaviour, lots of love, cuddles, games, and hands on parenting.

It's not by chance, but I'm sure some of it is nature, even if most of it's nurture.

I have well-behaved dc. I wouldn't say we are particularly strict. I'm a big believer in picking your battles and not forbidding things without good reason. I'd say modelling good behaviour is really important. Children of parents who fly off the handle, get into shouty rows, take offence at the slightest thing, behave selfishly etc tend to be the same. It's learned behaviour.

@Fruggalo

My children are not beautifully behaved all the time, and the outbursts we get are wild at time. I’ve done quite a bit of kids volunteering over the years and seen a mix...

But... //hoiks judgy pants up with real examples// I’m astounded by the lack of respect some of the parents of my eight year old’s classmates will tolerate. So: coming out of school, throwing their belongings at them, being impolite or rude (“Oi, where’s my food?”, not answering a question even vaguely politely etc) and no feedback - my kids might do that, but I insist on a please or say “excuse me, who do you think you are” or “you can have a snack once you’ve answered my very simple question - shall we go x or y way home”. Just one example but I see it at other times too.

Really hard to remember to parent first, friend second.

This 👆🏻

Mine aren't angels all the time by any means but I don't tolerate them being rude. DC1 best friend is a little shit and flings his stuff at his DM saying 'take this' and she does nothing. DC copied it...once...it didn't end well for him and it's never been repeated.

The dinner ladies at school day he has lovely manners so I'm happy with that. I think he knows parents are the ones to push boundaries with and then we reinforce them.

I'm very strict on manners - please and thank you, excuse me if interrupting a conversation, I'm fine, thank you etc. I found you have to be disciplined in insisting on it every single time.

Pick them up on it every time they forget, and praise like mad (with the odd reward here and there) when they remember. Model great manners yourself. It really does become second nature pretty quickly.

My parents were the same way with us, they always believed that any child will get further in life with good manners. It's completely true and the thing is, it's not at all hard to teach, especially if you start early and are consistent.

Someone said upthread that different children can turn out differently with the same parenting because of genetics. I think a lot of people raise each child they have the same so as to ‘be fair’ but every child IS different and has different needs. A type of parenting style one child thrives under might not work for another. While that makes things tough with siblings who lets face it are often very sensitive to perceived unfairness, i’d say you need to look at each child you have as an individual and be responsive to their needs.

People often talk about having one ‘easy’ child and another more ‘difficult’ when actually they might just be parenting in a way that suited the ‘easy’ one and not the ‘difficult’ one.

All kids need love, boundaries, and active interest in who they are as a person at bare minimum though.

Also, while it’s good you are considering how to parent, coming at it from an assumption that they might turn out to be little menaces is a bit negative from the off. Better to just commit to being an engaged and perceptive parent and learning how each child ticks and responding to that I think!

I agree with Sidge about not sweating the small stuff, giving choices but limited ones, having boundaries and admitting when you're wrong. Also about loving them.

I'd also say that it's easier to start off relatively strict and loosen the boundaries as they get older and understand the consequences of their actions better. I also explained stuff at an early age: why drugs weren't a good idea, why I didn't want them to watch porn at a young age, why smoking isn't a good plan, why girls should be treated with equal respect etc. Without being po-faced, they've not been interested in those things because they're not seen as transgressive or exotic, just not a good idea.

Give them your time.
I am so glad that my children were young before the advent of smartphones.

@Fruggalo

My children are not beautifully behaved all the time, and the outbursts we get are wild at time. I’ve done quite a bit of kids volunteering over the years and seen a mix...

But... //hoiks judgy pants up with real examples// I’m astounded by the lack of respect some of the parents of my eight year old’s classmates will tolerate. So: coming out of school, throwing their belongings at them, being impolite or rude (“Oi, where’s my food?”, not answering a question even vaguely politely etc) and no feedback - my kids might do that, but I insist on a please or say “excuse me, who do you think you are” or “you can have a snack once you’ve answered my very simple question - shall we go x or y way home”. Just one example but I see it at other times too.

Really hard to remember to parent first, friend second.

This is a good point. My 7year old came out yesterday saying 'snack, snack, snack' and I pulled him to one side telling him to ask nicely. He did, got the sweet. However I have noticed loads of other children speaking rudely when they come out...

He never answers my questions though, so I'm going to take your advice tonight and make sure he answers me before giving the snack. Thank you.

Hmm, I'm not sure there is a reliable formula.

Everyone falls over themselves to tell me how great my teenage dd is - teachers, friends, strangers, her friend's parents. She is polite, confident, considerate, compassionate.

If I'm honest, I think it's about luck as much as anything...which could mean it's genetic or some other happy coincidence of circumstances. However, I do think there are some things that we have done which have helped.

For example, we have always tried to treat her with genuine respect and consideration - we have always explained the reasons behind why stuff was right or wrong, rather than going down the "I'm an adult and you're a child, so you'll do what you're told" route. I believe that kids probably need to feel respected themselves before they can properly show respect for others. I think it's also important that they see their parents consistently modeling respect and consideration in their interactions with others. A child watches their parents and copies their behaviour, so there is no point in preaching one thing and doing another.

People always talk on here about clear rules and boundaries, but that has never really meant much to me. Our main boundary is don't be an arse! We don't have loads of rules and we have never used rewards or punishments of any kind. We expect dd to be a decent, kind and respectful person. If she ever falls short of that, we talk about it with her, just as she would talk to us if she felt that we were falling short in some way. My parents raised dsis and me in a very similar manner.

We are fortunate in that dd takes pride in being a kind and decent person. Perhaps this has been helped by us noticing kind actions from an early age and helping her to see this as a central part of her identity, or perhaps it's just luck. She has a very strong sense of right and wrong, which makes parenting her quite easy.

Perhaps our approach would have been different with a different child, who's to say? But I do believe that showing them how to behave is much more important than telling them.

@ReindeersAreBetterThanHumans

Boundaries and following through with any ultimatum. Constantly remind them of their manners, model the behaviour you expect from them. Let them know what behaviour you expect from them before you go into the situation and be consistent. Ensure they have delayed gratification in their lives, whether this is a hobby, class etc. Limit their phone/screen time as it’s so easy to get bored and swap to something else on there (instant gratification). Be prepared to say no to your child.

My kids aren’t always wonderful but I can rely on them to behave when we are out and about. What I’ve put there is a mixture of my parenting style and what I’ve learned from watching others.

^^^^ This.

Also, you can’t MAKE a child eat, sleep or use the toilet. So don’t start a fight you can’t win, work out an approach that puts you and the child on the same side.

Dont build your life solely around them. Make them a priority in your life but not the only one. don't do without do they can be spoilt.

Teach them the value of things from the start. Just as you teach them about good hygiene, teach them about money. Explained how you pay the rent or mortgage talk about insurance, make them see where the hidden money goes.

Always follow through on threats, even if they were said in the heat of the moment and seem overboard.

Teach them to give as much as recieve.

Don't always intervene. Let them learn to negotiate and sort out conflict between them.

Always always be there for them when they are in pain, physical or psychogicsl.

We have 5. We were very very strict and tight on rules and expectations with the first 2. Worked hard, presented well at all times etc. I came to regret it a little. They were too polite, held back, easily looked over and trampled out. Even consciously ignored for turns at times because people knew they’d not make a fuss.
I found lots of kids will shout out, push forward, take. With my younger ones I’ve been a bit more balanced. Giving them more awareness of shitty behaviour and knowing when to snatch something back or give up raising their hand and shout out. I don’t always curtail them just because it’s not the best response, if they are meeting like with like.
I still insist on respect at home, but that’s mutual respect. I always point out I am respectful (I never shout in their faces, I know when to say sorry, I try to listen as well as talk at them).
So far the younger ones have more fun in activities like cubs and are still well liked. I’ve met many many adults that aren’t pleasant to children, and they handle it better. Ironically they aren’t as ‘good’ but have proved more likely to get behaviour rewards.

I’m rambling/ but what I’m trying to say is don’t raise a child too meek. They will be surrounded by some bad behaviour. Always telling an adult/ waiting for a turn etc may look impressive to other adults- but you want them to operate with their peers. You can’t fix the word around them:

There's some great advice on this thread.
I read a book when DD was little and there was a bit that stuck with me.
Something like 10% of kids are easy, any parent would be lucky to have one of these and they will thrive on whatever style of parenting they have. 10% will be a challenge however experienced and 'skilled' you are but most kids are somewhere in the middle.
Personally I think the advice to parent the child you have is spot on. Model the behaviour you want, don't tolerate rudeness of any kind, be loving and consistent. Pick your battles, keep your promises. Have fun.

Modelling is a huge part of it, especially how you react when angry!

DS is 3 and really well behaved (not perfect obviously) I have two tips but I do think personality has a lot to do with it.

Boundaries and follow through. I insist on manners and have done sinde day 1. DH thought I was mad always correcting a 1 year old on please and thank yous but he is super polite now so worth it!

Kids need boundaries. The worst behaved kids I know can do as they please with no come back. If you threaten something, follow through. I have taken DS home early from things, put him to bed early (talking like 530 if refuses to eat dinner) etc etc. It does work I find!

Be authoritative not authoritarian or neglectful (or you can be liberal-caring but that leaves it more up to chance like your parents). Tell them your expectations and what will happen as a consequence - positive or negative - and always follow through even if it's inconvenient. Then once consequence carried out instant forgiveness and moving on.

At the end of the day my children are loved, well provided for with good role model and ethos at home and plenty of board games -hot chocolate, day trips out and talk.

I had a "perfect" upbringing and went off the "rails" slightly because I got involved with someone highly abusive and coercive and just didn't understand what was happening. Sometimes I think my kids -could end up taking drugs etc -as I'm now divorced etc -but ultimately -it's on them. I get trauma and upbringing effects us but you can't said I ended up in an abusive marriage because of my parents -although for a time I did blame them. Humans are not perfect. Parents are not perfect. Children are not perfect. We all just muddle through the best we can and try to support each other. For example, if one of my children turns to drugs, I will not enable them -give them money etc but would offer support.

I do know a friend who was a fab single mum -who sat through therapy with her son -blaming her for not having his dad around as the reason he took drugs. She calmly pointed out -having an abusive relationship / father around meant she protected him, and did all on her own -He was 30 and she said -you are 30, you were loved, we had a house security and I worked but was also there for you. Plenty of people were worse off, but you were supported, I paid for uni etc -I could have walked out many times -but didn't etc -I don't want to say our feelings are unimportant or that counselling doesn't have its place but I'm on the opinion that at some point -we have to learnt life is hard. Bad things happen to good people. We make good mistakes and learn and bad mistakes -likewise we can't control others -we just can't. You have to do your best.

I think a lot of it is luck, I was a really well behaved child, my sister however was not at all! didn’t mellow from birth until late teens! Both brought up by same parents, had everything done the same but she’s always been quicker to bad mood etc.

If your son is 18m and has even a few words, is that a speech delay? Boys often don't say much til nearer 2.

@Ohalrightthen

Lots of freedom to explore and learn, and firm boundaries and consistency ro push against. It really is that simple... in theory! Practise is much harder!

This.

On the whole, I found mine behaved better when I wasn't too angsty about losing control over them iyswim. Constant criticism and dishing out of punishments turned out to be counterproductive. But they needed to know I wouldn't give way on essentials.

Also echoing the pp who says it’s important to say please and thank you. My DD is only 3 but I always drum manners into her. She knows if she comes to me and says “mummy I want a drink” she’s not getting it without a please!
I’m also dumbfounded at the parents who let their children order them about. Or when a birthday present/gift is snatched out your hand without a thank you, I think it’s bad form on the parents part.

Oh one other recommendation is to never make false promises to your child - always follow them through. Never promise they can have a treat / go to the park / watch some tv if you don’t actually mean to do it. I’ve always found that my DD will always hold me to whatever I say (she seems to have a memory of an elephant!) so I never promise anything I can’t keep. I think it’s good to build up trust between you.

It's a mixture of watching the good, the bad & the ugly parenting styles over the years. Then choosing the styles that suits my dc personality best, it's usually a blended approach. You have to tweak it as you go and pick your battles, somethings you let go & others not.

A mum at dc school has a 'positive parenting" style, she praises her child for everything. The kid is a spoilt brat, he thumped her once so she hugged him & went & bought him a game for his x box.

This is what you need to avoid, firm boundaries and consequences for bad bad behavior. If this kid batters his mum & gets praised for it, what do you think he'll do to his girlfriend in 15 yrs?