To wonder how the hell to raise well behaved children

[theantsgomarchin]

I have one DS and am pregnant with DC2. I have worked with babies for many years, but my time on MN is making me increasingly concerned about how the hell I raise my own children to be polite, well mannered and well behaved children / adults.

My parents were wonderful but very much hands off so can't say if necessarily follow their lead with similar results (they raised 4 well behaved children who are now all relatively high achieving adults) but the sceptic in me just thinks that's bloody good luck (to which they whole heartedly agree, we've had many hilarious conversations about it over the years)

But come on MN help a girl out. What parenting style do I take to ensure my kids aren't, for want of a better word, horrible little shits.

Being pointlessly strict can turn out badly. My Stepmum had pointless rules and punishments for no reason - e.g. I wasn't allowed to change channels when watching TV, if she caught me doing so I would be grounded, and this was when she wasn't even in the room and had to check on me periodically to catch me. I didn't like porridge so she left it out cold every morning and checked the bin to make sure I'd eaten it, grounded me if not. I grew up as an anxious, meek and nervous adult with food and emotional issues and my brother rebelled so hard against her that he ended up in a very dark place. When I hear my friends tell me that they didn't have to eat food as a child if they didn't like it, it amazes me.

Yes yes yes to manners. In our house, if you don't ask nicely you don't get.

Model good behaviour. Never give in to tantrums. Be consistent. Choose battles, but that doesnt mean focusing only on getting them fed/clean/dressed. Behaviour is important and is one of those battles.

It's also important to have age appropriate expectations. Its not reasonable to expect a 2 year old to sit through a lengthy meal in a restaurant and not want to get down/make noise/play with things, for example.

My children always behave best when they get plenty of sleep, plenty of good food, plenty of time outdoors and not too much screen time.

I's say find your own way. There are lots of right ways to parent. As long as there are boundaries, and encouragement, and the DC feel safe and know what is expected of them, you can't go far wrong.

Mine are now 20,19 and 16. As others have said, listen to to them, give choices, firm boundaries. I was very strict when they were younger and eased up as they were able to learn self control.
I tried to be respectful to them and expect the same from them and I wouldn't allow them to behave towards me in a way I wouldn't accept from anyone else.
Always positive, keep the drink in the cup when walking rather than don't spill it and praise wherever possible.

Saying that is easy though, I have been far from a perfect parent but I am lucky as I have very forgiving young adults.

I think we got there more by luck than judgement and I am so proud of them.

Mum of 4/ grandma to 3 here.
Actually parent them. That’s my advice. I see way too many parents taking the easiest way out of every situation, which teaches the child they can do/ say anything and get away with it. Teach them right from wrong.
Be approachable, so they can come to you with problems.
Accept you’ll make mistakes. We all do. Own up when you have. It sets the right example.
Love them. Let them know.
50% instinct, 50% common sense is what you need. The very fact you’re asking these questions means you’ll do just fine 🙂

Pukkatea
One man's pointlessly strict is another man's "safe". My children aren't allowed to change channels. Because there is some really fucked up stuff on some channels that I dont want them seeing and it's far to easy to inadvertently switch to something scary, graphic etc that a child can't unsee.

While your stepmothers approach with porridge sounds excessive, my son will say he "doesn't like" any food except absolute favourites (cake, pasta bolognese, peanut butter sandwiches). I am his parent, I am responsible for encouraging him to eat a varied and healthy diet. He is allowed to reject a few things he really hates but no, I'm not going to let a 4 year old live on white carbs because he wants to.

Pick your battles! And be prepared to win the battles you do pick. That sounds combative but raising children often is: your child’s job is to push boundaries and it’s your job to be firm and consistent. Never make an empty threat. Take the first opportunity to leave a restaurant because there’s screaming: issue your warning ‘stop screaming or we have to leave’ and then if the screaming doesn’t stop, get up and leave. It won’t take long for children to get the message.
If there are two parents, ensure one doesn’t undermine the other.
Bribes are not a good disciplinary tool but we all use them 🤫

Mine are now in their 20s and agree with pretty much everything said:

• parent not friend
• no empty threats
• real consequences
• habitual politenesses

But the thing which made the biggest difference for DS when he was little was managing expectations. He could get very worked up and upset if he thought we were going to do something and then did something different.

eg DCs went to the local zoo a lot (we had an annual subscription). We learned to tell DS before we went and also remind him frequently on the way round that we wouldnt be going into the gift shop (it was a particular trigger for him as he always wanted what his pocket money couldnt stretch to).

That simple management of expectation improved family trips enormously.

Oh and yes to owning up/apologising when you make a mistake.

I’m not anti screaming, but anti screaming in restaurants

As other posters have said, consistency, fairness, boundaries, good manners, giving choices within limits, but also being there for them so that they’re secure. Instilling a moral code or philosophy (whether secular or religious). I’d also add trying to teach them that what’s popular isn’t always the best thing, whether that’s branded clothing, x-boxes, McDonalds, Disney or whatever. So evaluate and make their own choices and don’t just follow the crowd.

My two turned out fine but I still don’t know whether it’s nature, nurture or sheer good luck!

I think manners play a huge part .
If you instil good manners in them from a very early age then you are half way there .
I would say both my children are well behaved (but have had their moments)and I have had comments from strangers about them which is just so nice to get as you always doubt yourself as a mum so when others comment on it,it really helps to know you’re doing ok !
Definitely lots of praise and clear boundaries.
I say this after dd9 stormed off in a huff this morning after I asked her to change her school trousers as the ones she was wearing were too short .. she’s polite and generally well behaved but she’s also a drama queen !

Instil the gift of thinking of other people. My mother was brilliant at this. As an early teen I internally 🙄 as she banged on but she was so right.

Ask other people questions don’t always talk about yourself. Think how you come across. Children are naturally self centred we need to teach them not to be. Many adults never learn this.

Don’t let them win at games all the time would be a huge one for me. Ever since the kids were 4/5 we’ve made them know that you don’t always win. And I’m so glad I did. We seem to live in a culture where we try and protect kids from losing - and it doesn’t do them any favours. My son’s friend is a typical example. He’s nearly 11 - he can’t take part in sports tournaments if he knows they’re tournaments as he can’t deal with losing and so now on the occasions when things don’t go his way, he still has horrible toddler style tantrums. Saying that he also still has to have his parents sit at the bedroom
Door while he falls asleep at night and then one of them sleeps with him each night too so there’s definitely an issue with saying ‘no’ in that house. I’ve said to my kids several times that I’m sorry if they think we’ve been ogre like in raising them sometimes but I think they get it when they see how their friends behave. We’ve always taken them out for meals and they’ve always knows that restaurants aren’t places for running round. Even in the early days when we’d go as a group of mums with preschoolers to somewhere like pizza express, just because they let their kids run around, doesn’t mean you have to let yours. We have been strict about the things that matter and liberal about the things that don’t. I guess I always kind of think - if my Nan was looking down on my kids would she approve. It matters to me a lot that older people think my kids are well behaved and we have been so lucky to have been complimented on their behaviour - in restaurants, hotels - even by a group of old Spanish men playing dominoes together when we were on holidays. Be the parent, not the friend and the friendship will follow. Mine are 11 and 13 now and we run along quite nicely together.

I knew I had succeeded when my then 6 year old in the classroom queue when there was a lull in conversation turned to another mum and said “do you have any nice plans for the weekend?” 😁

So many have said it but it’s all in the modelling and expectations. Parent them and keep your family the centre not their friends. Expect a lot of them but parent them individually. They are all different people. Be there for them and connect to them. Don’t sweat the small stuff. The stages where they want to take their toothbrush out or to wear the bin on their head won’t last or make them a monster. The stage where their avarice sees them being rude about old aunt Margery’s shit Christmas present is the one to squash. Encourage empathy and laughter.

Consistency, clear expectations on behaviour, establishing good self esteem (but not pushing over the line into arrogance), love and praise.

@theantsgomarchin

Do you think it has much / anything to do with how you (the parents) are as people, generally.

I wouldn't say I'm "strict" but I can see myself being the disciplinarian over DH, he is and always has been a big softie. DS is very young but even he has tantrums sometimes (the other day because I wouldn't let him take his toothbrush to the park). DH wanted to let him just to keep him happy but I refused because it's ridiculous and I didn't want to have to buy another! I didn't do it intentionally to "discipline him" because at this age it would go totally over his head anyway, but in hindsight it concerns me slightly that DH will just let them do what they like to stop them giving off!

He’s old enough to have firm boundaries such as not taking his toothbrush to the park. You need your DH on side though, having one very soft parent will not help in the long term.

Model good behaviour.

Kids are such copycats. They imitate what they see around them. Make sure that they see good behaviour - kindness, patience, good manners.

I’m stunned at how few people say please and thank you to their own family. DH and I always do that.

@MsTSwift

The most Iax mum in our group who treats her dc like adults has the nicest teens. The parents who were super over strict over parenting controlling style have fearful teens who can’t meet your eye say hello or make conversation. Don’t know if nature or nurture!

Its not about extremes though. Im somewhere in the middle. Zero tolerance for rudeness, whining or fussiness about food. How the parents speak to each other is usually at the crux of children speaking to their mothers like shit. Consistency and firm but fair boundaries. My old boss wondered why his 11 year old still had tantrums-there were no rules, just whatever the parents felt like doing at the time.or could be bothered with He was either indulged or screamed at Poor kid didnt know if he was coming or going!

Model the behaviour you want to see - that means being polite and considerate to people you meet out and about etc but ESPECIALLY to your partner (and he to you). I know from first hand experience that one parent treating the other with contempt/talking about how dreadful they are can then impact how the child talks to that parent and others. Eg. often you can see kids that are really rude to their mothers/fathers and then you see the other parent and think "oh, thats why!"

Show them the behaviour you wish to mimic. Let them have a voice. Keep communication open. Keep boundaries firm & follow through with threatened punishment. Never be physically violent with them.

Encourage debate. Alway show love, even if you don’t like them - toddlers & teens are trying! - comfort but don’t smother them.

Have fun. Laugh with them. Don’t hover around them constantly or become obsessed or knee jerk into action into at very perceived slight in school (ie don’t go into school shouting the odds if they’re not Mary in the Nativity, save your wrath & might for serious incidents, bullying etc).

Treat your children as equally as you can, but if you need to give more attention to one, explain & keep communicating your love to the others (appropriate to age, obvs).

Don’t let them roam the streets like teen wildebeest, have an open door policy so your teen & friends have somewhere safe to be.

Don’t compare them to other siblings/family/friends kids.

But mostly? Remember they are not there to fulfil and dreams or wishes that you may have had & not done. If your child isn’t academic, don’t force them to achieve goals like medicine if that’s what you do/wanted to do but didn’t. It’s a recipe for resentment.

Let them follow their own potential, support them & be there if it goes pear shaped.

These are a few things I’ve learned with 2 kids, numerous teen fosters & a lifetime working & volunteering with kids.

Of course, it may all be utter bollocks, but it seems to have worked so far 😂

Cross posted with someone else about modelling good behaviour.
I dont mean by the way that you can ever have disagreements (or even arguements) with your partner. Thats normal and showing that it is possible to disagree in a healthy way is important. It is more that you are appreciative of each other and kind (so if your husband grunts and takes the mean you prepared without saying thank you dont expect your child to behave differently)

I think you can be both parent and friend, especially as they get older, tbh.

My best advice is that you can’t raise well behaved children without some embarrassing moments. Having boundaries means sometimes you have to reinforce them, in public. You aren’t doing anything wrong when you stand over your tantruming child or carry them off to the car past aghast onlookers! You are doing the important thing of showing them where the line is. Have some confidence, raise your head high and always affirm another parent firmly and lovingly enforcing a boundary. I always catch their eye and say “you’re doing a good job, keep going” which sounds patronising but having been on the receiving end is much needed encouragement!!