To wonder how the hell to raise well behaved children

[theantsgomarchin]

I have one DS and am pregnant with DC2. I have worked with babies for many years, but my time on MN is making me increasingly concerned about how the hell I raise my own children to be polite, well mannered and well behaved children / adults.

My parents were wonderful but very much hands off so can't say if necessarily follow their lead with similar results (they raised 4 well behaved children who are now all relatively high achieving adults) but the sceptic in me just thinks that's bloody good luck (to which they whole heartedly agree, we've had many hilarious conversations about it over the years)

But come on MN help a girl out. What parenting style do I take to ensure my kids aren't, for want of a better word, horrible little shits.

Parenting style only gets you about 50% of the way. A lot of it is down to personality of the child, any neurological concerns, peer influences. Two children, raised the exact same way by the same parent, can end up with completely polar personalities. I may or may not know a pair of children (twins) where the girl was a hell-raiser and the boy was an absolute "delight" to others. Their early childhoods were practically identical. Mum was exceptionally smug about how "good" her children were perceived and how it was all down to her parenting. Around the pre-teen years, things changed abruptly...

It's luck.

I have one very compliant dc and one not so compliant!

For example

"Time for bed"

Dd. Yes mummy
Ds. So unfair, I hate you, can't I stay up for ten more minutes. None of my friends go to bed this early

Is this where you mention DD is 7 and DS is 25 former

I once read about a big survey on this in New Scientist or some such. They'd actually tracked a number of parenting styles to see what led to the "best" outcomes (i.e happy, well adjusted people though I can't remember all the criteria)

The consensus was that the most effective parenting is not to either extreme (not too strict, not too liberal) and "iron fist, velvet glove" i.e. firm boundaries and expectations, clear consequences, but delivered with warmth, kindness and humour. So for example a regular bedtime and expecting please and thank you, but trying to maintain a cheery atmosphere is the best combo.

Much, much easier said than done of course! But I've tried to bear that in mind.

Of course kids are very different too so another part of it is being adaptable and tailoring it a bit. My DC for example never "got" things like naughty step or time out and it would just make them worse, and were terrible for tantrums for a long time - but positive reinforcement and giving them responsibilities worked much better.

Also agree with being human yourself and not setting yourself up as infallible.

I also get that thing from my DC where they are horrified at the way some other DC are allowed to do stuff like eat endless sweets or play 18+ games. They don't necessarily like it when I put my foot down, but they somehow have a sense that a parent who sets limits is preferable to one who doesn't.

Children who are ALWAYS well behaved are usually the product of over strict parenting.

My mother's favorite phrase for why he had to do / not do something was, "Because I said so", it doesn't make a happy child.

I think as lots of people have said, being consistent however that plays out for you is key. Knowing that you will follow through be it a promise or a consequence matters to them. It makes them feel secure. When they feel they've done wrong remind them that you love them but may not like they way they've behaved. Stress the difference. Make sure there are keystones for their lives, be it a regular morning habit or bedtime one, again it goes towards feeling secure. But loads of excellent stuff on this thread.

Yes, you can do everything ‘right’ and there will still be some children who are more stubborn, more defiant and more challenging than others. Those children are often, but not always, the ones who get ‘big things’ done in life...*

*The little things in life are just as important and valuable, sometimes much more so.

But, whatever personalities ones children have - however compliant or not they are, however ‘spirited’ they might be - the 50-60% good, clear, consistent parenting side of things is still crucial. Variance due to nature does not mean one should abdicate one’s responsibility of parenting well.

Fully agree with the iron fist -velvet glove post above. In an ideal world parents would be loving and unflappable but also with boundaries consistently reinforced. We can’t be perfect though. It’s okay to get it wrong. It’s okay to tell your kids you got it wrong. But don’t let it spiral into self doubt.

@Welcometonowhere

Is this where you mention DD is 7 and DS is 25 former

10/12...so to be fair my ds is becoming quite teenage but he has always been less compliant than my dd...so,with him, the teacher was constantly pulling me aside at the end of the day to tell me about that days misdemeanours! Teachers have never had to talk to me about dds behaviour ever.

Absolutely, no child needs to be 100% well behaved all the time. But they should be taught how to behave, and expected to behave well. That can absolutely be done with kindness, and with an understanding of the child’s specific capabilities and limitations.

I can’t abide it when people expect children to behave better (in emotional terms) than adults do. But it’s a surprisingly common viewpoint.

Talk to them. Communication communication communication. I see parents who’ve taken 5 kids out to dinner and they are all watching iPads. Nobody take to anyone anymore. Parents are on their phone.

It’s always for me. About communication. Taking. Explain everything. Answer all the questions. Keep them engaged.

Also I have 2 girls. So I never really had the boisterous boys. But for me. (I’ve volunteered at many a baby group). The ones who behave the worst. Do it for attention. Because they never get it properly. Parents are too busy talking. On their phone. On social media. The ones who are always so well behaved I find are the ones who parents not devote their life to them (because that in itself also creates problems). But it’s just the ones who are there when their child talks to them. Their child trusts that if they want attention. They get it. That builds trust.

I also think very firm boundaries. Kids love firm boundaries.

Good luck!

Teach them to think of others as well as themselves.

Have high expectations which are explained clearly in advance.

Treat them with respect and kindness.

Personally I go against the grain and say it’s to do with treating children with respect. If you wouldn’t shout at an adult, punish your spouse or tell someone off, don’t do it to a child. Children treat others as they’ve been treated themselves.

And have understanding for the developmental stage they’re at.

Yes, definitely. Always approach it in a way that is appropriate for their developmental stage, making expectations fair and being gentle but firm. Starting right at one or two years old, with the very basics.

@tigerbread20

I researched parenting styles a lot and use my own take on respectful parenting, my DS is 5 and now he is a genuine pleasure, well mannered, kind boy. I feel like I've won the lottery. But it's taken a lot to get here, and I feel sad about how I used to parent as it obviously didn't suit him. That said, I parent my daughter exactly the same and she's an absolute firecracker, horses for courses. Some littles are just more spirited

@tigerbread20 I’m quite interested in knowing what you do differently now to how you parented him before? I have a 4 year old and half the time I wonder if I’m not strict enough or if I’m too strict— he still tantrums a lot but at heart is such a caring child, so something is going wrong along the line with my parenting.

We have few rules, but those rules are set in stone. Breaking the rules has consistent punishment or consequences which are always followed up.

I'm open to almost anything. If DS can put forward a good enough case as to why he should be allowed to have / do something then we will consider it. I find the discussion easier to deal with than the nagging and whining.

We try to lead by example as much as possible. We're not perfect by any means but we will also own up to our mistakes.

We do our very best to encourage self confidence, as well as a belief that if things go wrong they can usually be redeemed. It would not be the end of the world if he failed his GCSE's as he could always resit them. However he may be held back a year and his friends would possibly go to uni without him, that sort of thing IYSWIM?

I always remember this boy. Who was young. Who was holding W knife to his mother. Which was horrific.

The lady said let’s do your daily routine. The boy only got attention when he behaved badly. He stopped at a road and she just ignored it. So praise the good attention! Always praise the good attention.

I always think what's really key is how they behave at a friend's house? My ds can be really full of attitude at home and rude to us but if he goes to a friend's house, he is impeccably polite to their parents and nicely behaved. That at least reassures me I've done something right!

Oh and I absolutely agree always praise the good behaviour or even just non naughty behaviour! When mine were little, if we were walking round the supermarket and they weren't having a tantrum or running riot, I'd say "wow, you're walking round with me so nicely, this is such a lovely trip to the shop with you" blah blah

Lead by example, always try to explain your reasons for decisions, rules etc. Let them make mistakes and learn from them.
Most children are pretty good (most of the time!). Be strict, but not authoritarian. Stick to what you say, they will respect that rather than giving in to them/letting them get away with things.
It's the little caring things that they pick up on. I told my 5 year old I was getting hot after moving some furniture around and she offered to get me a drink of water! Those are the moments you know you're doing it right!

Obviously be caring, educated and polite parents and create a similar home life, but basically it is just luck. Some children are just highly strung and a nightmare to parent.

Funnily enough I have had a lot of criticism from other school and baby group parents about my parenting but a lot of compliments from teachers and other people. [shrug]

One parent told me that I was abusive to my DC because I had a set bedtime, made them eat what I had cooked and made them do homework. She said "I would never treat MY child like that". Other parents think I am very strict and a bit of a Tiger Mom. I think that compared to some very slack parents I probably am. On the other hand I get continuous compliments from teachers who tell me that my DC work really hard, are well mannered and kind. Our headmistress once told me that I clearly set boundaries but my DC are allowed the freedom to do what they like within them. Not sure what that means.

I think it is really important to get the basics of eating and sleep right when they are small. I did put a lot of time into this. A well fed child and one that sleeps well is a good foundation for everything else.

When my DC were born I was told by my own family that spoiling and mollycoddling them would do them no favours and I totally agree with this. They used to pull me up if they saw me doing it. In fact, all the issues that I see with my DC's friends are down to being mollycoddled and spoilt.

Finally, one thing that I also live by is "never let your child fail". I am amazed when I hear my friends say things like "he refuses to do his homework, I am just going to let the school give him a detention to teach him a lesson" or parents who enrol their DC in a hobby or class and then let them drop out the minute they say they don't want to go. My DC have said this on occasion and then 2 weeks later love it again.

I have three well behaved DC (age 11 to 15). They have their moments, but they work hard at school and are kind and loving.

When they were little, I tried to say YES whenever I could. I think too many parents say no for the sake of it when their child wants to do something which doesn't quite fit in with their plan for the day. But when I did say no, I absolutely meant it and would follow through every time.

Also - a huge part of it is luck / genes / personality. I was a well behaved child and teen and so was my DH, so it's not astonishing that our DC are too.

Following on from that Kitten, there are other words apart from YES and NO. There is meet in the middle, a bit of compromise. Sometimes you can say "No, but what about if we do this instead".